From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed Apr 16 15:13:22 2003 Me thinks Bernard Hubbard shows such contemptible indifference for our Constitutional religious rights as human rights, to be considered politically a fascist! - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html "Bernard Hubbard" wrote in message news:Xns935F93023F06bernard61hiprimuscom@203.134.67.67... What the shit does your gibberish have to do with the politics of homosexuality? I notice that your ISP is Australian, so presumably you are Australian. From one Australian to another *Rack off Drongo* go spew your shit in a group for the mentally inept. "Bernard Hubbard" wrote in message news:Xns935F9536D111bernard61hiprimuscom@203.134.67.67... What the fuck has an Insurance Company got to do with ANZAC DAY or Un-constitutional quasi-religious values and rights violations? Are you some sort of nutter? Are you going to try to explain your view of things to the gathering crowds? If so, I hope the explaination is not in the form that you have published in this newsgroup. Ladies and Gentlemen of Melbourne, please bring your rotten eggs and over ripe tomatoes to Collins Street,southside between Willam Street and Market Street, they will be wanted and you could turn a quick profit. -- Bernard Hubbard Australian, a Green liberal and Gay. Proud to be all three. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has and knows its limits. On the other hand Stupidity is limitless" --Unknown The greatest undeveloped territory in the world lies under your hat. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed Apr 16 17:26:57 2003 Dear Arsewipe, If you have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion thread, then please cease distrupting my participation as though it needs your approval! - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html "Fritz" wrote in message news:ge7na.40$C42.64681@news.abs.net... I'll try the reasoned speech, I don't want to look like you. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed Apr 16 17:54:25 2003 Freedom of speech doesn't include the impugnity of one's being--Your internet conduct is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html "Fritz" wrote in message news:QO7na.44$C42.65498@news.abs.net... Dolf Boek wrote: > Dear Arsewipe, > > If you have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion thread, then > please cease distrupting my participation as though it needs your approval! Dear pompous wind bag, In this country it's called freedom of speech, and you was the one that invaded this group with that nonsensical twaddle. If you don't like it stop posting here. -- Fritz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Taking back my freedom of conscience. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed Apr 16 19:35:03 2003 vPurple - Tue 15 Apr, 2003 ... vOrange - Friday 18 Apr, 2003 ... Sun 20 Apr, 2003 [ Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/rudolph.html?4/1/2003 ] Cell = 8 Initiative #1 - 36 Disposition #2 - 81 Synthesis #3 - 54 [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] Here's a reference to my public use of the term #54 with regards to this calendar which I'm researching. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:48:50 GMT From: "Dolf Boek" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,aus.religion.christian Subject: - [HTML] The Define #54 - Autonomy Bali Hoxer Confesses! It is also true that given my reflecton of the Russell Street Police Complex bombing of 1pm Thursday 27 March, 1986: "Do you know what it is like to walk through a shattered building moments after a bomb has gone off. To have time [to] answer an incessant phone, to reassure the voice at the other end, that most were okay. And hope that Jack Inglis who borrowed his neighbour's car, got far enough away. And get to your destination, to find the police in disarray? I'm sure even Rob Jell will tell you, 'Nothing happens by accident.' So don't ever say, it can't happen here..." That after viewing the Bali bombing chaos in the darkness on 12 October, 2002 Sunday news program, I happened upon a covalescing street protest forming outside the Victoria State Library in Swanston Street, Melbourne. Having regard to my model below which was developed and conveyed as a gift to Spiral Dynamics Chris Cowan who is co-author with Psychiatrist Don Beck of "Spiral Dynamics -- Mastering values, leadership and change." I was acutely aware, post September 11, 2001 of the role that mass media plays in maintaining the psychological health of the populace and that the earlier the psychological intervention post disaster, the better the recovery back into the social matrix. Without infringing upon their right to protest, I invented some ambulatory rhetorics which sought to raise question on the actual number of dead as a result of the Bali bombing event. I said, "#54" and suggested it would be advantageous for the gathering to direct their energies to the question of defining Autonomy! As it isn't uncommon for me to correspond with Chris on mundane matters, "Here's a New Year thought for you. What's so special about 15 February, 2003 {#69 - Feb 15-19} and does it have a relationship to 11 September, 2001 {#43 - Sep 8-12}?" I provided my covenant #54 - vMeme CHAD {Ambulatory rhetorics} Pack as description of the event. You may be aware of Spiral Dynamic Practitioner and fellow Seventh-day Adventist Caleb Rosado's article entitled: 'When We Disagree - How Cultural Values Shape Our Conversation' [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/info/review27042000.html ] which expresses a sociological view that "A 'belief' or 'value system' is a worldview (kosmos), a set of perspectives/priorities/paradigms, a mind-set, an organizing framework for deep-level decision-making at the bottom line-which is why you can't compromise about it. Your value system is the threshold at which you won't negotiate. Each level of cultural and human development represents a value system, or to use a term coined by Richard Dawkins, a MEME. Just as genes carry the informational codes for our biological DNA, these value systems supply the codes (or MEME, rhymes with 'themes') that determine our 'cultural DNA.' Memes are ideas, beliefs, values, common ways of looking at the world that, like contagious viruses, spread from brain to brain through word of mouth, through media, through interaction between people. The third angel's message is a meme." Here is a recent newsgroup dialog on such the Subject of impugnity of life: "EDEN -- Now that we've had the Solar eclipse with a likely repeat in 28 years {viz. the Bible's chronology and hermeneutic}" Gadzooks {Colloq: God's hooks, ie. By the nails of Christ} Alan, your soi-disance has reached to here! "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message news:dL6J9.12964$B03.33770@news-server.bigpond.net.au... Alan have you soiled yourself again? That's what you get for dispensing impugnity with no rationale or substance! "Alan M" wrote in message news:Cj2J9.329$a5.1075@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... I wonder if they'd produce more gas than Dolf ? "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message: A cup of vinegar to you too! As usual, the only public testimony that Lawless (anti-nomian) and Godless "Teresita" as claimed depth of spiritual life as religious belief, is impugnity of life as the continued denial of others human, religious and constitutional rights. "Teresita" wrote in message news:asvn6202b9p@drn.newsguy.com... "Alan M" wrote in message news:UzII9.92999$g9.257790@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... >Do the cows understand what you're talking about ? They're thinking, "This guy makes us mad cows look like paragons of sanity." "Funny, I thought Jesus zapped the Commandments with his sacrifice: Eph 2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace" ["Teresita" Suggesting "THE STANDARD FOR HATE!" at 07:22:04 hours 2002-12-08 PST] "faust" wrote in message news:vph9vukcctaghdpt6gekssad3svfhbp3v4@4ax.com... Oh, and gargle babble to you too. "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message Speaking of goolies {Colloq: 1. a stone, 2. a testicle, 3. a gob of phlegm; also gooly -- Courtesy Macquarie Dictionary}, I was never much of a joke teller, but here's one from childhood innocence: Q. If I have a mothball in the left hand, and a mothball in the right hand -- what do I have? A. A bloody big moth! [Real Answer is a Homoth The following Metaphysical Daemon Influence contains a reference to the Angelic influence Homoth. Mitzrael (Mizreal) [296°-300° /Jan 16-20 /Capricorn /Earth /= 330 (#1) Latin: Gloria Alt: Menkel {Cease Strife Before God}] { 1. HELPS HEAL THE ILLS OF THE SPIRIT, RELEASES FROM PERSECUTORS 2. MEN OF VIRTUE 3. FAITHFULNESS, INDUCES OBEDIENCE IN SUBORDINATES 4. Homoth} [#3 (#20/#52 - So What?/ Returning to the Origin) { FOCUS - 10J=490}] {KING}] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos "Bernard Hubbard" wrote in message news:Xns935F9536D111bernard61hiprimuscom@203.134.67.67... What the fuck has an Insurance Company got to do with ANZAC DAY or Un-constitutional quasi-religious values and rights violations? Are you some sort of nutter? Are you going to try to explain your view of things to the gathering crowds? If so, I hope the explaination is not in the form that you have published in this newsgroup. Ladies and Gentlemen of Melbourne, please bring your rotten eggs and over ripe tomatoes to Collins Street,southside between Willam Street and Market Street, they will be wanted and you could turn a quick profit. -- Bernard Hubbard Australian, a Green liberal and Gay. Proud to be all three. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has and knows its limits. On the otherhand Stupidity is limitless" --Unknown The greatest undeveloped territory in the world lies under your hat. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Tue Apr 22 08:13:03 2003 Rita, As you routinely make a public comment concerning psychological needs eg: "Take your meds, dear." ["rita" , AEST 22/4/2003] "The first day of EVERY month on the Hebrew calendar is a new moon. It is a LUNAR calendar, idiot" ["rita" AEST 22/4/2003] I've extended the newsgroups to your usual posting groups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism, alt.recovery.from-12-steps What we are looking at is the connection, reconciliation and synchronisation of this 254 day lunar calendar with King David's 364 day solar calendar: A Mathematical Kabbalistic Metaphysical & Regulative Philosophical Autonomous Model of Time, Information & Reason: #11 (#2/#37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Adminstration of Government ) -- Telos (6,000) = Arch (0) + c² Synchronisation: #41 Mem = Thursday, 13 September, 2001 [#41 (#41/#41 - Playing with Reversal)] n(n2 + 1)/2 = #sum Magic squares for series 3x3 {=9, #123}, 5x5 {=25, #205}, 7x7 {=49, #287} and 9x9 {=81, #369} days. Such that for #41 = 2(n * 41) + 41 from the 1st = #123, 2nd = #205, 3rd = #287 and 4th = #369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} Hebrew Calendar: {4 x 91 [30+30+31] Quarters (364 days)} + 5 CHAD? 354 day lunar year x 3 years = 1062 + 30 day month = 1092 days as 364 day solar year x 3 = 1092 days 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 days {Total Solar eclipse 11 August, 1999} Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year/New Moon) 1 Tishri 5760 = September 11-12 1999 with Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = September 20, 1999 + {Topical Year/Day Total Solar eclipse 25 December, 2000} + Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year/New Moon) {PE (#80) - End of Year: 29 Elul 5761} + CHAD: #1 {TSADE (#90) - 1st Rosh Hashanah} Tues, 18 September, 2001/ 1 Tishri , 5762; #2 {QOPH (#100) - 2nd Rosh Hashanah} Wed, 19 September, 2001/ 2 Tishri , 5762; #3 {RESH (#200)}; #4 {SHIN (#300); #5 {TAU (#400)} Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = September 27, 2001 1260 days - 1092 days = 24 x 7 days [24 Priestly Courses where each served for 7 days] A further comment on 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 demonstrating a connection with the lunar yearly cycle which occurred on 1 Tishri and needs to be further researched regarding its 2,000th year apogee between 11-12 Sept, 1999 & 18-19 Sept, 2001] Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year) 1 Tishri #1 September 21-22, 1998 (5758) #2 {Total Solar eclipse 11 August, 1999} September 11-12 1999 (5759) #3 September 30/October 1, 2000 (5760){Topical Year Solar eclipse 25 December, 2000} #4 September 18-19, 2001 (5761) #5 September 7-8, 2002 (5762) #6 September 27-28, 2003 (5763) #7 September 16-17, 2004 (5764) Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) 10 Tishri #1 September 30, 1998 #2 September 20, 1999 #3 October 9, 2000 #4 September 27, 2001 #5 September 16, 2002 #6 October 6, 2003 #7 September 25, 2004 In Biblical times the determined dates for the Hebrew religious festival of Rosh Hashanah fell on the first day of the month when there is an occurrence of a new moon. Note that in computing the elapsed days in 6,000 years when using 365.2425 = 2,191,455 gives a parallax error of 2 days. If the Topical total solar eclipse of Christmas Day 25 December, 2000 is an indication of the length of a piece of string {ie 2,191,453 days} and a relationship to the Hebrew's Yom Kippur {Day of Atonment}, then it concludes on the 11th - Kaf. The total days elapsed within 6,000 {122J3W1D} years x 365.242198781 topical year = 2,191,453 days when divisible by 22 gives the character {KAF} as the 11th remaining and when divisible by 41 gives the remaining value as 3. Given its historical usage and taxonomical association, causing me to synchronise the Rudolph Telos {for September 2001 as 5th & 27th - He, 20th - Resh, 6th & 28th - Vav, 13th - Mem, 1st & 23rd - Aleph, 8th & 30th - Heth, 10th - Yod, 15th - Samek and 12th - Lamed} with the centre square #41 of the 9(92 + 1)/2 = 369 [9 x 41 as 52W5D or 4 x 91 {364} + 5 days] day matrix occurring on the Thursday 13 September to Monday 17 September, 2001; Note: 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 demonstrates a connection with the lunar yearly cycle which needs to be further researched)], being: 20+6+100= 126 (#7) Latin: Exultabundus Alt: Lavyah {Desireless Nature of God}] { 1. HELPS RECOVER THE FRIENDSHIP OF THOSE WE'VE OFFENDED 2. WILLS 3. FRIENDLY DISTRIBUTION } [#41 #41/(#41 - Playing with Reversal (cf: vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0)] With Tuesday 18 September, 2001 being Rosh Hashanah [#39 (#39/#73 - Employing Deeming - to form or have an opinion, judge, think, regard)] occurred on Jewish/Hebrew Calendar 1 Tishri , 5762 commencing the 10 days of Atonement culminating with Yom Kippur [#25 (#33/#33 - Achievable Goals)] on Thursday 27 September, 2001. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "rita" wrote in message news:2TUoa.12269$J17.628@twister.nyc.rr.com... ???? The first day of EVERY month on the Hebrew calendar is a new moon. It is a LUNAR calendar, idiot -- not just in Biblical times but today as well. Rosh HaShanah = "head of the year" = the first day of the first month of the year = New Year's Day (on the Hebrew calendar). Take your meds, dear. ~Rita From: rita66@webtv.net (Rita) Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism,alt.recovery.from-12-steps Subject: Re: once an alcoholic.... Date: 30 Oct 2001 21:52:54 -0800 Message-ID: <147b9fe9.0110302152.26309da6@posting.google.com> "Jim F" wrote in message news:... > Just got one question for you Rita, and I am not trying to be a smart ass. > Just what the hell happened to you that you feel the need to bash something > you dont believe in. There is nothing wrong with you not wanting anything to > do with AA. And judging by your comments, you dont. So why not just leave it > alone. > --------------- I am not "bashing" AA, and the discussion here (the one I was engaging in, anyway) was about government-mandated AA -- NOT voluntary attendance at AA by those who are into 12-step ideology -- and the disingenuous claim made by some AA'ers that the ideology of their program dovetails with ANYONE'S beliefs. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Tue Apr 22 09:34:30 2003 If you have some constructive comments to make in this discussion thread, then do. As a response clarifying that a still to be fully researched point {ie. Kaf-11th September, 2001, Samek {vYellow; pillar, as a pillar in the House of Yahweh}-approx 246 days later on Wed, 15 May, 2002 when the New York World Trade Centre was cleared of its last pillar & Pe-Last Day of Month/Year on 29 Elul, 5761 as 17 September, 2001} was already given, not once--but several times. The post by "Steve Knight" hardly seems necessary--What motivated them to make it? What we are looking at is the connection, reconciliation and synchronisation of this 354 day lunar calendar with King David's 364 day solar calendar: A Mathematical Kabbalistic Metaphysical & Regulative Philosophical Autonomous Model of Time, Information & Reason: #11 (#2/#37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Adminstration of Government ) -- Telos (6,000) = Arch (0) + c² Synchronisation: #41 Mem = Thursday, 13 September, 2001 [#41 (#41/#41 - Playing with Reversal)] n(n2 + 1)/2 = #sum Magic squares for series 3x3 {=9, #123}, 5x5 {=25, #205}, 7x7 {=49, #287} and 9x9 {=81, #369} days. Such that for #41 = 2(n * 41) + 41 from the 1st = #123, 2nd = #205, 3rd = #287 and 4th = #369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} Hebrew Calendar: {4 x 91 [30+30+31] Quarters (364 days)} + 5 CHAD? 354 day lunar year x 3 years = 1062 + 30 day month = 1092 days as 364 day solar year x 3 = 1092 days 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 days {Total Solar eclipse 11 August, 1999} Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year/New Moon) 1 Tishri 5760 = September 11-12 1999 with Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = September 20, 1999 + {Topical Year/Day Total Solar eclipse 25 December, 2000} + Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year/New Moon) {PE (#80) - End of Year: 29 Elul 5761} + CHAD: #1 {TSADE (#90) - 1st Rosh Hashanah} Tues, 18 September, 2001/ 1 Tishri , 5762; #2 {QOPH (#100) - 2nd Rosh Hashanah} Wed, 19 September, 2001/ 2 Tishri , 5762; #3 {RESH (#200)}; #4 {SHIN (#300); #5 {TAU (#400)} Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = September 27, 2001 1260 days - 1092 days = 24 x 7 days [24 Priestly Courses where each served for 7 days] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "Steve Knight" wrote in message news:q5t8av4vcjf016doh2p6nc97biji2hkgm1@4ax.com... >Heth, 10th - Yod, 15th - Samek and 12th - Lamed} with its taxonomical >association to the centre square #41 of the 9(9²+1)/2 = 369 [9 x 41 as >52W5D] day matrix occurring on the (333rd) Thursday 13 September to Monday >17 September, 2001 This where you lost me, Dolf. Is it Mary Ann or Ginger? Warlord Steve BAAWA www.sonic.net/~wooly DOLF NOTES: A further comment on 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 demonstrating a connection with the lunar yearly cycle which occurred on 1 Tishri and needs to be further researched regarding its 2,000th year apogee between 11-12 Sept, 1999 & 18-19 Sept, 2001] Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year) 1 Tishri #1 September 21-22, 1998 (5758) #2 {Total Solar eclipse 11 August, 1999} September 11-12 1999 (5759) #3 September 30/October 1, 2000 (5760){Topical Year Solar eclipse 25 December, 2000} #4 September 18-19, 2001 (5761) #5 September 7-8, 2002 (5762) #6 September 27-28, 2003 (5763) #7 September 16-17, 2004 (5764) Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) 10 Tishri #1 September 30, 1998 #2 September 20, 1999 #3 October 9, 2000 #4 September 27, 2001 #5 September 16, 2002 #6 October 6, 2003 #7 September 25, 2004 In Biblical times the determined dates for the Hebrew religious festival of Rosh Hashanah fell on the first day of the month when there is an occurrence of a new moon. Note that in computing the elapsed days in 6,000 years when using 365.2425 = 2,191,455 gives a parallax error of 2 days. If the Topical total solar eclipse of Christmas Day 25 December, 2000 is an indication of the length of a piece of string {ie 2,191,453 days} and a relationship to the Hebrew's Yom Kippur {Day of Atonment}, then it concludes on the 11th - Kaf. The total days elapsed within 6,000 {122J3W1D} years x 365.242198781 topical year = 2,191,453 days when divisible by 22 gives the character {KAF} as the 11th remaining and when divisible by 41 gives the remaining value as 3. Given its historical usage and taxonomical association, causing me to synchronise the Rudolph Telos {for September 2001 as 5th & 27th - He, 20th - Resh, 6th & 28th - Vav, 13th - Mem, 1st & 23rd - Aleph, 8th & 30th - Heth, 10th - Yod, 15th - Samek and 12th - Lamed} with the centre square #41 of the 9(92 + 1)/2 = 369 [9 x 41 as 52W5D or 4 x 91 {364} + 5 days] day matrix occurring on the Thursday 13 September to Monday 17 September, 2001; Note: 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 demonstrates a connection with the lunar yearly cycle which needs to be further researched)], being: 20+6+100= 126 (#7) Latin: Exultabundus Alt: Lavyah {Desireless Nature of God}] { 1. HELPS RECOVER THE FRIENDSHIP OF THOSE WE'VE OFFENDED 2. WILLS 3. FRIENDLY DISTRIBUTION } [#41 #41/(#41 - Playing with Reversal (cf: vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0)] With Tuesday 18 September, 2001 being Rosh Hashanah [#39 (#39/#73 - Employing Deeming - to form or have an opinion, judge, think, regard)] occurred on Jewish/Hebrew Calendar 1 Tishri , 5762 commencing the 10 days of Atonement culminating with Yom Kippur [#25 (#33/#33 - Achievable Goals)] on Thursday 27 September, 2001. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed Apr 16 17:27:55 2003 Dear Arsewipe, If you have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion thread, then please cease distrupting my participation as though it needs your approval! - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html "Fritz" wrote in message news:ls7na.41$C42.65022@news.abs.net... You nazis are all the same, everybody's wrong but you. Some people would even call you delusional. I know I would. -- Fritz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Taking back my freedom of conscience. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Thu Apr 17 06:51:19 2003 I can't let these public untruthful comments as ad hominem go unchallenged. I am not psychiatrically ill, but I have been subjected to unrelenting psychological abuse by Australians over the past 18 years due to my HIV status and for which I am persuing legal action for the factitious, vexatious and life impugning violation of religious rights and human and Constitutional rights--Your Freedom of speech doesn't include the impugnity of one's being--Your internet conduct is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism. That readers can view this diatribe of factitious, vexatious and life impugning internet discourse as it occurs day after day as though its entertainment, is contemptible and no doubt culturally representative--in that their superficial claim to piety extends only to luxuriate in celebrating that myth called Y2K, our Centenary as supposedly a civil and decent democratic peoples and the 27th Olympic Games. As my posts involve Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the English language--it ought to be compatible with your idiomatic use of the language. - dolf "Vaughan Williams" wrote in message news:H67na.8219$hF.64756@news-server.bigpond.net.au... So am I, but I don't make long incomprehensible posts to numerous irrelevant newsgroups. Why not just note he's psychiatrically ill and leave it at that? And stop talking to him. You'll only encourage him. DOLF NOTES ON #54 vPurple - Tue 15 Apr, 2003 ... vOrange - Friday 18 Apr, 2003 ... Sun 20 Apr, 2003 [ Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/rudolph.html?4/1/2003 ] Cell = 8 Initiative #1 - 36 Disposition #2 - 81 Synthesis #3 - 54 [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] Here's a reference to my public use of the term #54 with regards to this calendar which I'm researching. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:48:50 GMT From: "Dolf Boek" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,aus.religion.christian Subject: - [HTML] The Define #54 - Autonomy Bali Ho[a]xer Confesses! It is also true that given my reflecton of the Russell Street Police Complex bombing of 1pm Thursday 27 March, 1986: "Do you know what it is like to walk through a shattered building moments after a bomb has gone off. To have time [to] answer an incessant phone, to reassure the voice at the other end, that most were okay. And hope that Jack Inglis who borrowed his neighbour's car, got far enough away. And get to your destination, to find the police in disarray? I'm sure even Rob Jell will tell you, 'Nothing happens by accident.' So don't ever say, it can't happen here..." That after viewing the Bali bombing chaos in the darkness on 12 October, 2002 Sunday news program, I happened upon a covalescing street protest forming outside the Victoria State Library in Swanston Street, Melbourne. Having regard to my model below which was developed and conveyed as a gift to Spiral Dynamics Chris Cowan who is co-author with Psychiatrist Don Beck of "Spiral Dynamics -- Mastering values, leadership and change." I was acutely aware, post September 11, 2001 of the role that mass media plays in maintaining the psychological health of the populace and that the earlier the psychological intervention post disaster, the better the recovery back into the social matrix. Without infringing upon their right to protest, I invented some ambulatory rhetorics which sought to raise question on the actual number of dead as a result of the Bali bombing event. I said, "#54" and suggested it would be advantageous for the gathering to direct their energies to the question of defining Autonomy! As it isn't uncommon for me to correspond with Chris on mundane matters, "Here's a New Year thought for you. What's so special about 15 February, 2003 {#69 - Feb 15-19} and does it have a relationship to 11 September, 2001 {#43 - Sep 8-12}?" I provided my covenant #54 - vMeme CHAD {Ambulatory rhetorics} Pack as description of the event. You may be aware of Spiral Dynamic Practitioner and fellow Seventh-day Adventist Caleb Rosado's article entitled: 'When We Disagree - How Cultural Values Shape Our Conversation' [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/info/review27042000.html ] which expresses a sociological view that "A 'belief' or 'value system' is a worldview (kosmos), a set of perspectives/priorities/paradigms, a mind-set, an organizing framework for deep-level decision-making at the bottom line-which is why you can't compromise about it. Your value system is the threshold at which you won't negotiate. Each level of cultural and human development represents a value system, or to use a term coined by Richard Dawkins, a MEME. Just as genes carry the informational codes for our biological DNA, these value systems supply the codes (or MEME, rhymes with 'themes') that determine our 'cultural DNA.' Memes are ideas, beliefs, values, common ways of looking at the world that, like contagious viruses, spread from brain to brain through word of mouth, through media, through interaction between people. The third angel's message is a meme." Here is a recent newsgroup dialog on such the Subject of impugnity of life: "EDEN -- Now that we've had the Solar eclipse with a likely repeat in 28 years {viz. the Bible's chronology and hermeneutic}" Gadzooks {Colloq: God's hooks, ie. By the nails of Christ} Alan, your soi-disance has reached to here! "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message news:dL6J9.12964$B03.33770@news-server.bigpond.net.au... Alan have you soiled yourself again? That's what you get for dispensing impugnity with no rationale or substance! "Alan M" wrote in message news:Cj2J9.329$a5.1075@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... I wonder if they'd produce more gas than Dolf ? "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message: A cup of vinegar to you too! As usual, the only public testimony that Lawless (anti-nomian) and Godless "Teresita" as claimed depth of spiritual life as religious belief, is impugnity of life as the continued denial of others human, religious and constitutional rights. "Teresita" wrote in message news:asvn6202b9p@drn.newsguy.com... "Alan M" wrote in message news:UzII9.92999$g9.257790@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... >Do the cows understand what you're talking about ? They're thinking, "This guy makes us mad cows look like paragons of sanity." "Funny, I thought Jesus zapped the Commandments with his sacrifice: Eph 2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace" ["Teresita" Suggesting "THE STANDARD FOR HATE!" at 07:22:04 hours 2002-12-08 PST] "faust" wrote in message news:vph9vukcctaghdpt6gekssad3svfhbp3v4@4ax.com... Oh, and gargle babble to you too. "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message Speaking of goolies {Colloq: 1. a stone, 2. a testicle, 3. a gob of phlegm; also gooly -- Courtesy Macquarie Dictionary}, I was never much of a joke teller, but here's one from childhood innocence: Q. If I have a mothball in the left hand, and a mothball in the right hand -- what do I have? A. A bloody big moth! [Real Answer is a Homoth] The following Metaphysical Daemon Influence contains a reference to the Angelic influence Homoth within cell #69 of the Matrix. Mitzrael (Mizreal) [296°-300° /Jan 16-20 /Capricorn /Earth /= 330 (#1) Latin: Gloria Alt: Menkel {Cease Strife Before God}] { 1. HELPS HEAL THE ILLS OF THE SPIRIT, RELEASES FROM PERSECUTORS 2. MEN OF VIRTUE 3. FAITHFULNESS, INDUCES OBEDIENCE IN SUBORDINATES 4. Homoth} [#3 (#20/#52 - So What?/ Returning to the Origin) { FOCUS - 10J=490 reference to Jesus of Nazareth}] {KING}] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Thu Apr 17 12:59:49 2003 It would appear that "Gladys Swager" religious opinion on homosexuality is irrational and founded on superstitious religious dogmas as myths that have no substance in fact--Such claim to piety is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism. Let's presuppose that the vKabblah matrix as the Torah's cosmological, epistemological, ontological and Christological model [See vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0) http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] is representative of the Chinese conception of the TAO {ie. The Way-Hodos Gk.}: "But when Felix {happy, prosperous} heard these things, having a more accurate knowledge of the Way-HODOS {DAO/TAO TE as Way of Virtue}, he adjourned the proceedings and said, 'When Lysias {dissolving} the commander comes down, I will make a decision on your case.' So he commanded the centurion to keep Paul {small; little} and to let him have liberty, and told him not to forbid any of his friends to provide for or visit him. And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla {watered by the dew}, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, 'Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you.' Meanwhile he also hoped that money would be given him by Paul, that he might release him. Therefore he sent for him more often and conversed with him. But after two years Porcius Festus {festive, joyful} succeeded Felix; and Felix, wanting to do the Jews a favour, left Paul bound." [Acts 24:22-27] The #54 entry dealing with the Autonomy of Wisdom within Lao-Tzu's 'The Tao {Way} Te {of Vrtue} Ching' titled 'Culturing Perspectives/ The Cultivation of Intuition' reads as follow: "'#1 - What is well planted is not uprooted; #2 - What's well preserved can not be looted!' #3 - By sons and grandsons, #4 - the sacrificial celebrations shall not cease. #5 - Who cultivates Reason in his person, his virtue is genuine. #6 - Who cultures it in his house, his virtue is overflowing. #7 - Who cultivates it in his township, his virtue is lasting. #8 - Who cultivates it in his country, his virtue is abundant. #9 - Who cultivates it in the world, his virtue is universal. #10 - Therefore, #11 - By one's person one tests persons. #12 - By one's house one tests houses. #13 - By one's township one tests townships. #14 - By one's country one tests countries. #15 - By one's world one tests worlds.' #16 - How do I know that the world is such? #17 - Through IT" [The Teachings of Lao-Tzu © 1913 Paul Carus, © 2000 Jim Pym Thomas Dunn Books ISBN 0-312-26109-8] "Often the collections of proverbs are framed by what scholars call an 'instruction', that is, the literary device of a wise sage instructing his pupils or his children in the ways of wisdom. Sometimes the instruction is patently fictional, and the sage that 'speaks' through the proverbs is anonymous; sometimes the teacher is a real historical figure, such as Jesus ben Sira, who wrote the book of Sirach in the 2nd century BCE. At least two compositions among the Dead Sea Scrolls are wisdom instructions, 'The Book of Secrets' and the longer work called 'The Secret of the Way Things Are'." [Wise Abegg & Cook, The Dead Sea Scrolls (1Q27, 4Q299-3010)] Further to my comments that this Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the English language--it ought to be compatible with your idiomatic use of the language, are the comments from Chad Hansen, author of Language and Logic in Ancient China (1987) and who is Chair Professor of Chinese Philosophy at the University of Hong Kong. Concerning the TAO/DAO-'WAY Gk. Hodos' and its taxonomical connection to metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy I read: "These reflections about TAO/DAO {'WAY Gk. Hodos' } help highlight how the baseline concerns of Chinese philosophy differ from those of Indo-European philosophy. The deep parallel is that both traditions are interested in language. But the Geek and Hindu theories of language depend on the semantic concepts of meaning and truth. The Indo-European approach tries to explain linguistic meaning in relation to individuals and to a real world. We apprehend the meaning in the objective world. Language is about the real world. This Indo-European perspective treats the m[ai]n function of language as descriptive or representative. The role of language assumed in these theories is the communication of information about the world from one speaker to another. As a result, Indo-European philosophy has a particular kind of interest in metaphysics and epistemology. Its epistemologies address the question of how an individual can comprehend meaning and how he can know the world. {eg: 1) Nature contains Nature (FOCUS) 2) Nature rejoices in its Nature (EQUITY) 3) Nature surmounts Nature (RATIO) 1 + 2 + 3 = Supernal Triad which acts upon TIME {ie. Kepler's 3 Cosmological Laws} 4) Nature amended in its Nature [Aleph {1+30+80 = 111 /#6}] - Nature contains Nature (#1 - 22/7 as 3W1D - Adam) 5) Act of Nature [Beth {2+10+400 = 412 /#6}] - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#2 - 26J5W - Noah) 6) Form of Nature [Gimel {3+40+30 = 73 /#3}] - Nature surmounts Nature (#3 - 40J4W as Everlasting Covenant [Hebrews 6:13-20]) 7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}] - Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Torah @ Sinai]) 8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}] - Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} + 3(32+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) 9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}] - Form of Nature (#6 - cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of 69th week {72J71W5D} - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE) 10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}] - Engendering Nature (#7 - Telos Topical year solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days = 122J3W1D : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6 remaining)) Thus if the equation Telos {122J3W1D} = Arch {22/7 as 3W1D} + c2 representing the decade sequence, is then further synchronized with a topical solar eclipse occurring leap year cycle: 1997 {Wednesday}, 1998 {Thursday}, 1999 {Friday}, 2000 {Saturday} + Solar Eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days of the Topic Year. the number of elapsed days is precisely 2,191,455 days and evenly divisible by 7 = 31,3065. The Gregorian 400 year calendar is also in effect the elapse of a 7-day cycle within 400 years: 400 x 365.2425 {Length of topical year} = 146,097 days. The Sun is also 400 times larger than the Moon, it is 400 times farther from the Earth. A direct consequence of this fortuitous geometry is that during a total solar eclipse, the Moon occults the Sun with a nearly perfect fit. [Fred Espenak's 'Fifty Year Canon of Solar Eclipses: 1986-2035' as United States of America's NASA {The Goddard Space Flight Centre, Greenbelt, Maryland} Reference Publication 1178 Revised (July 1987) [ISBN 0-933346-45-X http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/093334645X ] } This leads both Western traditions (Indian and Greek) to a notion of a mind populated within inherently representative mental items: ideas. As we have seen, ideas constitute a kind of private language. Conventional languages, thus, become superficial in the Indo-European model. It is hardly controversial that Chinese philsosophy does not have the classical mind-body dualism of Western {ie Aristotle's metaphysical} philosophy {Although the Protestant Scholastic view of the Greek/Latin term 'Telos' as a mathematical description of the soul as entelechy marks an important counter, both for philosophy and for scholastic theology, to the Platonic dualism of soul and body. Just as Aristotelianism allows no separation of form and matter and no independent, extramental existence of universalia, so does it deny the dualism or separability of soul and body. http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/meta/time.html#TREE } We also accept that it has far less concern with epistemology. We certainly find none of the worry about the individual's experience of the world and its accuracy as a representation. The concern with knowledge in Confucius is linked directly to TAO/DAO {'WAY Gk. Hodos'}. Knowledge is knowledge of TAO/DAO, knowledge of what it can do. (The modern term for KNOW is zhi-dao KNOW WAY.) zhi-KNOWING and ignorance are determined by DAO/TAO. Thus, in The Analects, the translators frequently render zhi-KNOW as CLEVER. zhi-KNOWING is more akin to skill than to information processing. We should understand zhi-KNOW as KNOW-HOW or KNOW-TO rather than KNOW-THAT. To zhi-KNOW DAO/TAO is to know (how) to perform it properly. Finally, therefore, the focus at the early Confucian baseline is not on metaphysics, but on guidance. DAO/TAO does not communicate scientific truths, but ways to perform. DAO/TAO is initially and basically a perspective, not a descriptive concept. The role of language is not representing a reality that is external to our inner psyche. Its role is communicating and transmitting guidance to society from social leaders through history." [© 1992 Professor Chad Hansen, A Daoist Theory of Chinese Thought - A Philosophical Interpretation, p 85-86 - ISBN 0-19-506729-0 / 0-19-513419-2 (pbk.)] "There is no more reason to suppose that God has revealed metaphysics than that He has revealed chemistry. The Christian revelation is, at least primarily, a setting forth of certain facts. It does not in itself afford a guarantee of the certainty of the speculations which are built upon these facts. All such speculations are dogmas in the original sense of the word. They are simply personal convictions. To the statement of one man's convictions other men may assent: but they can never be quite sure that they understand its terms in the precise sense in which the original framer of the statement understood them. The belief that metaphysical theology is more than this, is the chief bequest of Greece to religious thought, and it has been a damnosa hereditas. It has given to later Christianity that part of it which is doomed to perish, and yet, while it lives, holds the key of the prison-house of many souls." [The Influence of Greek Ideas & Usages Upon the Christian Church, Edwin Hatch Dr. of Divinity, 1995, (Reprint of 5th ed., 1895), p 137-138] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0304161713.edab704@posting.google.com... I still have to answer in this way without the record of comments by other posters. Barry, you have not taken in what I posted. Homosexuality was an lifestyle that was detrimental to the social life in Biblical times. It was necessary to have as many children as possible; it was necessary to prevent sexually transmitted diseases - more from homosexual behaviour as well as promiscuous behaviour. A parallel is within Australian Aboriginal tribes in which there were laws of behaviour between the various tribal members. If certain rules were disobeyed the tribal elder would make it known that the person involved had had the bone pointed at him/her and that death would come in a short time. In Biblical times there was a death sentence for homosexuality because it was against the homogenity (of the same kind and nature) of the group. However, it would seem to me that harsh punishments were meant to discourage people from acting in ways that were considered anti-social and so prevent the punishment.. Women have had a role in all ethnic groups. In most instances that was child-bearing and caring. It has only been in modern times (from 1960) that there has been an emphasis on women working outside the home as conditions have been more favourable. You must see issues in the context of their times otherwise your attitude will be unbalanced. Christians have been responsible for much education in the past. When there was a limited number of books the Bible was the means of developing literacy in may languages. In respect of Australian Aborigines Christians made the first transaltions into Aboriginal languages. As Aborigines progressed in understandings some were trained for leadership roles. Christians are humans, as all others with other belief systems. Sometimes they have failed. Sometimes they worked through from a trail-and-error-sometimes-success situation. Secularists who criticise us have to realise that while they are 'pointing the finger of scorn' three fingers are pointing back at themselves. As the New Testament records "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" ie. No one is perfect as God is perfect. The New Testament also provides the way to perfection through Jesus Christ. As a woman I have preached in a church by extraordinary circumstances. I spoke of three things that Jesus Christ gives us. The penalty of sin has been taken by Jesus, the power of sin can be overcome, the day will come when we are removed from the presence of sin. In the past God spoke to our forfathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son Whom He appointed heir of all things and through Whom He made the Universe. Hebrews 1 : 1 - 2 Gladys DOLF NOTES ON #54: I can't let these public untruthful comments as ad hominem go unchallenged. Why should I, be subjected to unrelenting psychological abuse by Australians and Americans over the past 18 years due to my HIV status and for which I am persuing legal action for the factitious, vexatious and life impugning violation of religious rights and human and Constitutional rights--Your Freedom of speech doesn't include the impugnity of one's being--Your internet conduct is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism. That readers can view this diatribe of factitious, vexatious and life impugning internet discourse as it occurs day after day as though its entertainment, is contemptible and no doubt culturally representative--in that their superficial claim to piety extends only to luxuriate in celebrating that myth called Y2K, our Centenary as supposedly a civil and decent democratic peoples and the 27th Olympic Games. As my posts involve Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the English language--it ought to be compatible with your idiomatic use of the language. vPurple - Tue 15 Apr, 2003 ... vOrange - Friday 18 Apr, 2003 ... Sun 20 Apr, 2003 [ Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/rudolph.html?4/1/2003 ] Cell = 8 Initiative #1 - 36 Disposition #2 - 81 Synthesis #3 - 54 [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] Here's a reference to my public use of the term #54 with regards to this calendar which I'm researching. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:48:50 GMT From: "Dolf Boek" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,aus.religion.christian Subject: - [HTML] The Define #54 - Autonomy Bali Ho[a]xer Confesses! It is also true that given my reflecton of the Russell Street Police Complex bombing of 1pm Thursday 27 March, 1986: "Do you know what it is like to walk through a shattered building moments after a bomb has gone off. To have time [to] answer an incessant phone, to reassure the voice at the other end, that most were okay. And hope that Jack Inglis who borrowed his neighbour's car, got far enough away. And get to your destination, to find the police in disarray? I'm sure even Rob Jell will tell you, 'Nothing happens by accident.' So don't ever say, it can't happen here..." That after viewing the Bali bombing chaos in the darkness on 12 October, 2002 Sunday news program, I happened upon a covalescing street protest forming outside the Victoria State Library in Swanston Street, Melbourne. Having regard to my model below which was developed and conveyed as a gift to Spiral Dynamics Chris Cowan who is co-author with Psychiatrist Don Beck of "Spiral Dynamics -- Mastering values, leadership and change." I was acutely aware, post September 11, 2001 of the role that mass media plays in maintaining the psychological health of the populace and that the earlier the psychological intervention post disaster, the better the recovery back into the social matrix. Without infringing upon their right to protest, I invented some ambulatory rhetorics which sought to raise question on the actual number of dead as a result of the Bali bombing event. I said, "#54" and suggested it would be advantageous for the gathering to direct their energies to the question of defining Autonomy! As it isn't uncommon for me to correspond with Chris on mundane matters, "Here's a New Year thought for you. What's so special about 15 February, 2003 {#69 - Feb 15-19} and does it have a relationship to 11 September, 2001 {#43 - Sep 8-12}?" I provided my covenant #54 - vMeme CHAD {Ambulatory rhetorics} Pack as description of the event. You may be aware of Spiral Dynamic Practitioner and fellow Seventh-day Adventist Caleb Rosado's article entitled: 'When We Disagree - How Cultural Values Shape Our Conversation' [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/info/review27042000.html ] which expresses a sociological view that "A 'belief' or 'value system' is a worldview (kosmos), a set of perspectives/priorities/paradigms, a mind-set, an organizing framework for deep-level decision-making at the bottom line-which is why you can't compromise about it. Your value system is the threshold at which you won't negotiate. Each level of cultural and human development represents a value system, or to use a term coined by Richard Dawkins, a MEME. Just as genes carry the informational codes for our biological DNA, these value systems supply the codes (or MEME, rhymes with 'themes') that determine our 'cultural DNA.' Memes are ideas, beliefs, values, common ways of looking at the world that, like contagious viruses, spread from brain to brain through word of mouth, through media, through interaction between people. The third angel's message is a meme." Here is a recent newsgroup dialog on such the Subject of impugnity of life: "EDEN -- Now that we've had the Solar eclipse with a likely repeat in 28 years {viz. the Bible's chronology and hermeneutic}" Gadzooks {Colloq: God's hooks, ie. By the nails of Christ} Alan, your soi-disance has reached to here! "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message news:dL6J9.12964$B03.33770@news-server.bigpond.net.au... Alan have you soiled yourself again? That's what you get for dispensing impugnity with no rationale or substance! "Alan M" wrote in message news:Cj2J9.329$a5.1075@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... I wonder if they'd produce more gas than Dolf ? "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message: A cup of vinegar to you too! As usual, the only public testimony that Lawless (anti-nomian) and Godless "Teresita" as claimed depth of spiritual life as religious belief, is impugnity of life as the continued denial of others human, religious and constitutional rights. "Teresita" wrote in message news:asvn6202b9p@drn.newsguy.com... "Alan M" wrote in message news:UzII9.92999$g9.257790@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... >Do the cows understand what you're talking about ? They're thinking, "This guy makes us mad cows look like paragons of sanity." "Funny, I thought Jesus zapped the Commandments with his sacrifice: Eph 2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace" ["Teresita" Suggesting "THE STANDARD FOR HATE!" at 07:22:04 hours 2002-12-08 PST] "faust" wrote in message news:vph9vukcctaghdpt6gekssad3svfhbp3v4@4ax.com... Oh, and gargle babble to you too. "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message Speaking of goolies {Colloq: 1. a stone, 2. a testicle, 3. a gob of phlegm; also gooly -- Courtesy Macquarie Dictionary}, I was never much of a joke teller, but here's one from childhood innocence: Q. If I have a mothball in the left hand, and a mothball in the right hand -- what do I have? A. A bloody big moth! [Real Answer is a Homoth] The following Metaphysical Daemon Influence contains a reference to the Angelic influence Homoth within cell #69 of the Matrix. Mitzrael (Mizreal) [296°-300° /Jan 16-20 /Capricorn /Earth /= 330 (#1) Latin: Gloria Alt: Menkel {Cease Strife Before God}] { 1. HELPS HEAL THE ILLS OF THE SPIRIT, RELEASES FROM PERSECUTORS 2. MEN OF VIRTUE 3. FAITHFULNESS, INDUCES OBEDIENCE IN SUBORDINATES 4. Homoth} [#3 (#20/#52 - So What?/ Returning to the Origin) { FOCUS - 10J=490 reference to Jesus of Nazareth}] {KING}] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Fri Apr 18 11:41:44 2003 In support of my earlier comments that this Torah's 6,000 year old metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the Hebrew/English language--which ought to be compatible with the widest possible idiomatic use of the language, and the comments from Professor Chad Hansen {author of Language and Logic in Ancient China (1987) and who is Chair Professor of Chinese Philosophy at the University of Hong Kong} on the obfuscated connection between metaphysical theology/regulative philosophy and language taxonomy, is this article from BBC Interactive which redfines our knowledge of the 'Earliest writing' found in China... By Paul Rincon BBC Science Correspondent Courtesy: BBC Interactive, Thursday, 17 April, 2003, 17:39 GMT 18:39 UK Birth of writing? Symbols on Chinese tortoiseshell date back 8,000 years The symbols were written down in the late Stone Age, or Neolithic Age. They predate the earliest recorded writings from Mesopotamia - in what is now Iraq - by more than 2,000 years. The archaeologists say they bear similarities to written characters used thousands of years later during the Shang dynasty, which lasted from 1700-1100 BC. But the discovery has already generated controversy, with one leading researcher in the field branding it "an anomaly". The archaeologists have identified 11 separate symbols inscribed on the tortoise shells. The shells were found buried with human remains in 24 Neolithic graves unearthed at Jiahu in Henan province, western China. The character for 'eye', similar to inscriptions in the latest find The site has been radiocarbon dated to between 6,600 and 6,200 BC. The research was carried out by Dr Garman Harbottle, of the Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York and a team of archaeologists at the University of Science and Technology of China in Anhui province. 'What [the markings] appear to show are meaningful signs that have a correspondence with ancient Chinese writing,' said Dr Harbottle. The Neolithic markings include symbols that resemble the characters for 'eye' and 'window' and the numerals eight and 20 in the Shang script. "If you pick up a bottle with a skull and crossbones on it, you know instantly that it's poison without the word being spelt out. We're used to signs that convey concepts and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what we're seeing here," Dr Harbottle added. However, Professor David Keightley of the University of California, Berkeley, urged caution, particularly over the proposed link to the much later Shang script." - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "Dolf Boek" wrote in message news:OaHna.11603$hF.90581@news-server.bigpond.net.au... Gladys, As I said, the claim by the cult of Mithra (ie. Roman Catholic Church), to be celebrating Jubilee2000 contemporaneously with the Y2K myth--like your Good Friday as 'chrsitianised' pretension to the Passover of the Hebrews--renders it mutually exclusive to any claim of 7th day Sabbath based, Torah compliant, Greek Philosophy compatible Christian Theology viz the Hebrew Torah Scholar, Greek Philosopher and Christian Apostle Paul's Epistles. The problem lays in the constructed, artificial and contrived moral view {ie. "In vain they do they worship God who keep and teach the commandments of men."} given by the cult of Mithra (ie. Roman Catholic Church) as their own theologian Dr. Edwin Hatch (c 1895) pre-Australain Consitution of 1901 conveys, that is, subscribing historically to Aristotle's metaphysical philosophy and Pythagoras' use of the Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as 72J + 3(3²+1)/2 = 457 BCE, was to accept an irrational religious nomenclature that gave to number attributes of gender and spermatic qualities--Such Greek ideas has "...given to later Christianity that part of it which is doomed to perish, and yet, while it lives, holds the key of the prison-house of many souls." [The Influence of Greek Ideas & Usages Upon the Christian Church, Edwin Hatch Dr. of Divinity, 1995, (Reprint of 5th ed., 1895), p 137-138] If I can equally define my religious belief, thought {Telos = Arch + c²} and conscience via number or otherwise according to the erroneous hymeneal values based cultic belief {ie. Sunday Sacred Sabbatarian antinomian Christians -- HYPOCRITES AND BLASPHEMERS IS STILL THE RIGHT WORD} which claims a wedding ring is evidence of Christian peity --Religion is then defined by 'gender and sexuality identity'. It would appear that "Gladys Swager" religious opinion on homosexuality is irrational and founded on superstitious religious dogmas as myths that have no substance in fact--Such claim to piety is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism--Her views are un-Constitutional. Thus if autonomy can be represented mathematically then my javascript {Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0.2600.000 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html } example is evidence of religious belief because it adheres to the principles of 7th day Sabbath originating Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy as wisdom. "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0304171308.5142e519@posting.google.com... Dolf, You have said a lot about a number of matters in your posting that has nothing to do with this topic of Homosexuality. What has been done at Sexuality/Abortion Clinics by a small group of people has been unlawful irrespective of one's attitude on such issues which should be debated rationally and without violence. It could be said that on this day, 18th April, 28 years ago I had begun my advocacy against certain Psychiatric treatments that had been used in the post-war years. (Electro Convulsive Shock (Therapy) treatments and Psychotropic medications and for alternative (more natural) means of managing states of mind and conditions that the Psychiatric profession had been experimenting with to e include within their treatment programmes. A secular-based profession had ignored the Bible and the comfort and guidance it had given to many through the centuries. There were areas in which charges could have been laid for inadequate diagnosis not taking into account environmental and physiological issues and incorrect treatments, but the Psychiatric profession protected itself by stating that following training meant a Psychiatrist could not be sued and by an intense media programme of criminal actions of some who had had Psychiatric treatments. It is of interest that some points I made in 1975 are now being presented as the way to go. I am posting the above to indicate I am not an idiot, although I do not have knowledge in some of the areas on which you write nor do I use the high level language which you, evidently, believe gives credibility to your viewpoint. The baseline is this. Homosexuality is a deviation from the norm. It was taken out of the Mental Illness category, despite the fact that it caused increased sexual diseases and othe medical problems. In the creation given in Genesis 1 and 2 of the Bible God told the man (Adam) and the woman (Eve) to be fruitful and to multiply ie. to increase the number of their kind. In homosexual behaviour that does not happen. I find the hormonal theory of causes very important in the finding a cure for a physiologically-based condition. I had theorised that imprinting could occur towards a male (doctor) during a very difficult childbirth. I wrote about that idea to a person in a Government department. What does concern me is the possibility of young teenagers being introduced to a homosexual/bisexual lifestyle (fornication/adultery) if they are presented as normal in school sexuality courses. When a woman taken in adultery was brought to Jesus by those who hoped He would support her stoning (as the Jewish law) He said, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." They all left. He told the woman to go her way and sin no more. Sexuality in humans is not intuitive. God has given us minds which allow us to choose whether to be involved or not. As a ten/eleven year old I chose not to marry when I chose teaching as my career at a time when, as far as I knew, there were no married women teachers in the education system. There are widows and widowers who remain faithful to their deceased spouses choosing not to marry again and to remain celibate for the rest of their lives. It may be of interest to know to what extent homosexuality was and still is a political issue in USA, Australia and elsewhere as secularists, as I am aware, were responsible for the breakdown of the educational systems i.e. a form of diversionary tactics as Talk-Back-Radio gave public access to the reporting of social problems. DOLF NOTES: Let's presuppose that the vKabbalah matrix as the Torah's cosmological, epistemological, ontological and Christological model [See vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0) http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] is representative of the Chinese conception of the TAO {ie. The Way-Hodos Gk.}: "But when Felix {happy, prosperous} heard these things, having a more accurate knowledge of the Way-HODOS {DAO/TAO TE as Way of Virtue}, he adjourned the proceedings and said, 'When Lysias {dissolving} the commander comes down, I will make a decision on your case.' So he commanded the centurion to keep Paul {small; little} and to let him have liberty, and told him not to forbid any of his friends to provide for or visit him. And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla {watered by the dew}, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, 'Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you.' Meanwhile he also hoped that money would be given him by Paul, that he might release him. Therefore he sent for him more often and conversed with him. But after two years Porcius Festus {festive, joyful} succeeded Felix; and Felix, wanting to do the Jews a favour, left Paul bound." [Acts 24:22-27] The #54 entry dealing with the Autonomy of Wisdom within Lao-Tzu's 'The Tao {Way} Te {of Vrtue} Ching' titled 'Culturing Perspectives/ The Cultivation of Intuition' reads as follow: "'#1 - What is well planted is not uprooted; #2 - What's well preserved can not be looted!' #3 - By sons and grandsons, #4 - the sacrificial celebrations shall not cease. #5 - Who cultivates Reason in his person, his virtue is genuine. #6 - Who cultures it in his house, his virtue is overflowing. #7 - Who cultivates it in his township, his virtue is lasting. #8 - Who cultivates it in his country, his virtue is abundant. #9 - Who cultivates it in the world, his virtue is universal. #10 - Therefore, #11 - By one's person one tests persons. #12 - By one's house one tests houses. #13 - By one's township one tests townships. #14 - By one's country one tests countries. #15 - By one's world one tests worlds.' #16 - How do I know that the world is such? #17 - Through IT" [The Teachings of Lao-Tzu © 1913 Paul Carus, © 2000 Jim Pym Thomas Dunn Books ISBN 0-312-26109-8] "Often the collections of proverbs are framed by what scholars call an 'instruction', that is, the literary device of a wise sage instructing his pupils or his children in the ways of wisdom. Sometimes the instruction is patently fictional, and the sage that 'speaks' through the proverbs is anonymous; sometimes the teacher is a real historical figure, such as Jesus ben Sira, who wrote the book of Sirach in the 2nd century BCE. At least two compositions among the Dead Sea Scrolls are wisdom instructions, 'The Book of Secrets' and the longer work called 'The Secret of the Way Things Are'." [Wise Abegg & Cook, The Dead Sea Scrolls (1Q27, 4Q299-3010)] Further to my comments that this Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the English language--it ought to be compatible with your idiomatic use of the language, are the comments from Chad Hansen, author of Language and Logic in Ancient China (1987) and who is Chair Professor of Chinese Philosophy at the University of Hong Kong. Concerning the TAO/DAO-'WAY Gk. Hodos' and its taxonomical connection to metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy I read: "These reflections about TAO/DAO {'WAY Gk. Hodos' } help highlight how the baseline concerns of Chinese philosophy differ from those of Indo-European philosophy. The deep parallel is that both traditions are interested in language. But the Geek and Hindu theories of language depend on the semantic concepts of meaning and truth. The Indo-European approach tries to explain linguistic meaning in relation to individuals and to a real world. We apprehend the meaning in the objective world. Language is about the real world. This Indo-European perspective treats the m[ai]n function of language as descriptive or representative. The role of language assumed in these theories is the communication of information about the world from one speaker to another. As a result, Indo-European philosophy has a particular kind of interest in metaphysics and epistemology. Its epistemologies address the question of how an individual can comprehend meaning and how he can know the world. {eg: 1) Nature contains Nature (FOCUS) 2) Nature rejoices in its Nature (EQUITY) 3) Nature surmounts Nature (RATIO) 1 + 2 + 3 = Supernal Triad which acts upon TIME {ie. Kepler's 3 Cosmological Laws} 4) Nature amended in its Nature [Aleph {1+30+80 = 111 /#6}] - Nature contains Nature (#1 - 22/7 as 3W1D - Adam) 5) Act of Nature [Beth {2+10+400 = 412 /#6}] - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#2 - 26J5W - Noah) 6) Form of Nature [Gimel {3+40+30 = 73 /#3}] - Nature surmounts Nature (#3 - 40J4W as Everlasting Covenant [Hebrews 6:13-20]) 7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}] - Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Torah @ Sinai]) 8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}] - Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} + 3(32+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) 9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}] - Form of Nature (#6 - cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of 69th week {72J71W5D} - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE) 10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}] - Engendering Nature (#7 - Telos Topical year solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days = 122J3W1D : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6 remaining)) Thus if the equation Telos {122J3W1D} = Arch {22/7 as 3W1D} + c2 representing the decade sequence, is then further synchronized with a topical solar eclipse occurring leap year cycle: 1997 {Wednesday}, 1998 {Thursday}, 1999 {Friday}, 2000 {Saturday} + Solar Eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days of the Topic Year. the number of elapsed days is precisely 2,191,455 days and evenly divisible by 7 = 31,3065. The Gregorian 400 year calendar is also in effect the elapse of a 7-day cycle within 400 years: 400 x 365.2425 {Length of topical year} = 146,097 days. The Sun is also 400 times larger than the Moon, it is 400 times farther from the Earth. A direct consequence of this fortuitous geometry is that during a total solar eclipse, the Moon occults the Sun with a nearly perfect fit. [Fred Espenak's 'Fifty Year Canon of Solar Eclipses: 1986-2035' as United States of America's NASA {The Goddard Space Flight Centre, Greenbelt, Maryland} Reference Publication 1178 Revised (July 1987) [ISBN 0-933346-45-X http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/093334645X ] } This leads both Western traditions (Indian and Greek) to a notion of a mind populated within inherently representative mental items: ideas. As we have seen, ideas constitute a kind of private language. Conventional languages, thus, become superficial in the Indo-European model. It is hardly controversial that Chinese philsosophy does not have the classical mind-body dualism of Western {ie Aristotle's metaphysical} philosophy {Although the Protestant Scholastic view of the Greek/Latin term 'Telos' as a mathematical description of the soul as entelechy marks an important counter, both for philosophy and for scholastic theology, to the Platonic dualism of soul and body. Just as Aristotelianism allows no separation of form and matter and no independent, extramental existence of universalia, so does it deny the dualism or separability of soul and body. http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/meta/time.html#TREE } We also accept that it has far less concern with epistemology. We certainly find none of the worry about the individual's experience of the world and its accuracy as a representation. The concern with knowledge in Confucius is linked directly to TAO/DAO {'WAY Gk. Hodos'}. Knowledge is knowledge of TAO/DAO, knowledge of what it can do. (The modern term for KNOW is zhi-dao KNOW WAY.) zhi-KNOWING and ignorance are determined by DAO/TAO. Thus, in The Analects, the translators frequently render zhi-KNOW as CLEVER. zhi-KNOWING is more akin to skill than to information processing. We should understand zhi-KNOW as KNOW-HOW or KNOW-TO rather than KNOW-THAT. To zhi-KNOW DAO/TAO is to know (how) to perform it properly. Finally, therefore, the focus at the early Confucian baseline is not on metaphysics, but on guidance. DAO/TAO does not communicate scientific truths, but ways to perform. DAO/TAO is initially and basically a perspective, not a descriptive concept. The role of language is not representing a reality that is external to our inner psyche. Its role is communicating and transmitting guidance to society from social leaders through history." [© 1992 Professor Chad Hansen, A Daoist Theory of Chinese Thought - A Philosophical Interpretation, p 85-86 - ISBN 0-19-506729-0 / 0-19-513419-2 (pbk.)] "There is no more reason to suppose that God has revealed metaphysics than that He has revealed chemistry. The Christian revelation is, at least primarily, a setting forth of certain facts. It does not in itself afford a guarantee of the certainty of the speculations which are built upon these facts. All such speculations are dogmas in the original sense of the word. They are simply personal convictions. To the statement of one man's convictions other men may assent: but they can never be quite sure that they understand its terms in the precise sense in which the original framer of the statement understood them. The belief that metaphysical theology is more than this, is the chief bequest of Greece to religious thought, and it has been a damnosa hereditas. It has given to later Christianity that part of it which is doomed to perish, and yet, while it lives, holds the key of the prison-house of many souls." [The Influence of Greek Ideas & Usages Upon the Christian Church, Edwin Hatch Dr. of Divinity, 1995, (Reprint of 5th ed., 1895), p 137-138] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0304161713.edab704@posting.google.com... I still have to answer in this way without the record of comments by other posters. Barry, you have not taken in what I posted. Homosexuality was an lifestyle that was detrimental to the social life in Biblical times. It was necessary to have as many children as possible; it was necessary to prevent sexually transmitted diseases - more from homosexual behaviour as well as promiscuous behaviour. A parallel is within Australian Aboriginal tribes in which there were laws of behaviour between the various tribal members. If certain rules were disobeyed the tribal elder would make it known that the person involved had had the bone pointed at him/her and that death would come in a short time. In Biblical times there was a death sentence for homosexuality because it was against the homogenity (of the same kind and nature) of the group. However, it would seem to me that harsh punishments were meant to discourage people from acting in ways that were considered anti-social and so prevent the punishment.. Women have had a role in all ethnic groups. In most instances that was child-bearing and caring. It has only been in modern times (from 1960) that there has been an emphasis on women working outside the home as conditions have been more favourable. You must see issues in the context of their times otherwise your attitude will be unbalanced. Christians have been responsible for much education in the past. When there was a limited number of books the Bible was the means of developing literacy in may languages. In respect of Australian Aborigines Christians made the first transaltions into Aboriginal languages. As Aborigines progressed in understandings some were trained for leadership roles. Christians are humans, as all others with other belief systems. Sometimes they have failed. Sometimes they worked through from a trail-and-error-sometimes-success situation. Secularists who criticise us have to realise that while they are 'pointing the finger of scorn' three fingers are pointing back at themselves. As the New Testament records "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" ie. No one is perfect as God is perfect. The New Testament also provides the way to perfection through Jesus Christ. As a woman I have preached in a church by extraordinary circumstances. I spoke of three things that Jesus Christ gives us. The penalty of sin has been taken by Jesus, the power of sin can be overcome, the day will come when we are removed from the presence of sin. In the past God spoke to our forfathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son Whom He appointed heir of all things and through Whom He made the Universe. Hebrews 1 : 1 - 2 Gladys DOLF NOTES ON #54: I can't let these public untruthful comments as ad hominem go unchallenged. Why should I, be subjected to unrelenting psychological abuse by Australians and Americans over the past 18 years due to my HIV status and for which I am persuing legal action for the factitious, vexatious and life impugning violation of religious rights and human and Constitutional rights--Your Freedom of speech doesn't include the impugnity of one's being--Your internet conduct is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism. That readers can view this diatribe of factitious, vexatious and life impugning internet discourse as it occurs day after day as though its entertainment, is contemptible and no doubt culturally representative--in that their superficial claim to piety extends only to luxuriate in celebrating that myth called Y2K, our Centenary as supposedly a civil and decent democratic peoples and the 27th Olympic Games. As my posts involve Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the English language--it ought to be compatible with your idiomatic use of the language. vPurple - Tue 15 Apr, 2003 ... vOrange - Friday 18 Apr, 2003 ... Sun 20 Apr, 2003 [ Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/rudolph.html?4/1/2003 ] Cell = 8 Initiative #1 - 36 Disposition #2 - 81 Synthesis #3 - 54 [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] Here's a reference to my public use of the term #54 with regards to this calendar which I'm researching. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:48:50 GMT From: "Dolf Boek" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,aus.religion.christian Subject: - [HTML] The Define #54 - Autonomy Bali Ho[a]xer Confesses! It is also true that given my reflecton of the Russell Street Police Complex bombing of 1pm Thursday 27 March, 1986: "Do you know what it is like to walk through a shattered building moments after a bomb has gone off. To have time [to] answer an incessant phone, to reassure the voice at the other end, that most were okay. And hope that Jack Inglis who borrowed his neighbour's car, got far enough away. And get to your destination, to find the police in disarray? I'm sure even Rob Jell will tell you, 'Nothing happens by accident.' So don't ever say, it can't happen here..." That after viewing the Bali bombing chaos in the darkness on 12 October, 2002 Sunday news program, I happened upon a covalescing street protest forming outside the Victoria State Library in Swanston Street, Melbourne. Having regard to my model below which was developed and conveyed as a gift to Spiral Dynamics Chris Cowan who is co-author with Psychiatrist Don Beck of "Spiral Dynamics -- Mastering values, leadership and change." I was acutely aware, post September 11, 2001 of the role that mass media plays in maintaining the psychological health of the populace and that the earlier the psychological intervention post disaster, the better the recovery back into the social matrix. Without infringing upon their right to protest, I invented some ambulatory rhetorics which sought to raise question on the actual number of dead as a result of the Bali bombing event. I said, "#54" and suggested it would be advantageous for the gathering to direct their energies to the question of defining Autonomy! As it isn't uncommon for me to correspond with Chris on mundane matters, "Here's a New Year thought for you. What's so special about 15 February, 2003 {#69 - Feb 15-19} and does it have a relationship to 11 September, 2001 {#43 - Sep 8-12}?" I provided my covenant #54 - vMeme CHAD {Ambulatory rhetorics} Pack as description of the event. You may be aware of Spiral Dynamic Practitioner and fellow Seventh-day Adventist Caleb Rosado's article entitled: 'When We Disagree - How Cultural Values Shape Our Conversation' [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/info/review27042000.html ] which expresses a sociological view that "A 'belief' or 'value system' is a worldview (kosmos), a set of perspectives/priorities/paradigms, a mind-set, an organizing framework for deep-level decision-making at the bottom line-which is why you can't compromise about it. Your value system is the threshold at which you won't negotiate. Each level of cultural and human development represents a value system, or to use a term coined by Richard Dawkins, a MEME. Just as genes carry the informational codes for our biological DNA, these value systems supply the codes (or MEME, rhymes with 'themes') that determine our 'cultural DNA.' Memes are ideas, beliefs, values, common ways of looking at the world that, like contagious viruses, spread from brain to brain through word of mouth, through media, through interaction between people. The third angel's message is a meme." Here is a recent newsgroup dialog on such the Subject of impugnity of life: "EDEN -- Now that we've had the Solar eclipse with a likely repeat in 28 years {viz. the Bible's chronology and hermeneutic}" Gadzooks {Colloq: God's hooks, ie. By the nails of Christ} Alan, your soi-disance has reached to here! "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message news:dL6J9.12964$B03.33770@news-server.bigpond.net.au... Alan have you soiled yourself again? That's what you get for dispensing impugnity with no rationale or substance! "Alan M" wrote in message news:Cj2J9.329$a5.1075@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... I wonder if they'd produce more gas than Dolf ? "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message: A cup of vinegar to you too! As usual, the only public testimony that Lawless (anti-nomian) and Godless "Teresita" as claimed depth of spiritual life as religious belief, is impugnity of life as the continued denial of others human, religious and constitutional rights. "Teresita" wrote in message news:asvn6202b9p@drn.newsguy.com... "Alan M" wrote in message news:UzII9.92999$g9.257790@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... >Do the cows understand what you're talking about ? They're thinking, "This guy makes us mad cows look like paragons of sanity." "Funny, I thought Jesus zapped the Commandments with his sacrifice: Eph 2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace" ["Teresita" Suggesting "THE STANDARD FOR HATE!" at 07:22:04 hours 2002-12-08 PST] "faust" wrote in message news:vph9vukcctaghdpt6gekssad3svfhbp3v4@4ax.com... Oh, and gargle babble to you too. "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message Speaking of goolies {Colloq: 1. a stone, 2. a testicle, 3. a gob of phlegm; also gooly -- Courtesy Macquarie Dictionary}, I was never much of a joke teller, but here's one from childhood innocence: Q. If I have a mothball in the left hand, and a mothball in the right hand -- what do I have? A. A bloody big moth! [Real Answer is a Homoth] The following Metaphysical Daemon Influence contains a reference to the Angelic influence Homoth within cell #69 of the Matrix. Mitzrael (Mizreal) [296°-300° /Jan 16-20 /Capricorn /Earth /= 330 (#1) Latin: Gloria Alt: Menkel {Cease Strife Before God}] { 1. HELPS HEAL THE ILLS OF THE SPIRIT, RELEASES FROM PERSECUTORS 2. MEN OF VIRTUE 3. FAITHFULNESS, INDUCES OBEDIENCE IN SUBORDINATES 4. Homoth} [#3 (#20/#52 - So What?/ Returning to the Origin) { FOCUS - 10J=490 reference to Jesus of Nazareth}] {KING}] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Fri Apr 18 11:57:09 2003 The WWW-page URL reference to the BBC Interactive article is included below... In support of my earlier comments that this Torah's 6,000 year old metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the Hebrew/English language--which ought to be compatible with the widest possible idiomatic use of the language, and the comments from Professor Chad Hansen {author of Language and Logic in Ancient China (1987) and who is Chair Professor of Chinese Philosophy at the University of Hong Kong} on the obfuscated connection between metaphysical theology/regulative philosophy and language taxonomy, is this article from BBC Interactive which redfines our knowledge of the 'Earliest writing' found in China... By Paul Rincon BBC Science Correspondent http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2956925.stm Courtesy: BBC Interactive, Thursday, 17 April, 2003, 17:39 GMT 18:39 UK Birth of writing? Symbols on Chinese tortoiseshell date back 8,000 years The symbols were written down in the late Stone Age, or Neolithic Age. They predate the earliest recorded writings from Mesopotamia - in what is now Iraq - by more than 2,000 years. The archaeologists say they bear similarities to written characters used thousands of years later during the Shang dynasty, which lasted from 1700-1100 BC. But the discovery has already generated controversy, with one leading researcher in the field branding it "an anomaly". The archaeologists have identified 11 separate symbols inscribed on the tortoise shells. The shells were found buried with human remains in 24 Neolithic graves unearthed at Jiahu in Henan province, western China. The site has been radiocarbon dated to between 6,600 and 6,200 BC. The research was carried out by Dr Garman Harbottle, of the Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York and a team of archaeologists at the University of Science and Technology of China in Anhui province. 'What [the markings] appear to show are meaningful signs that have a correspondence with ancient Chinese writing,' said Dr Harbottle. The Neolithic markings include symbols that resemble the characters for 'eye' and 'window' and the numerals eight and 20 in the Shang script. "If you pick up a bottle with a skull and crossbones on it, you know instantly that it's poison without the word being spelt out. We're used to signs that convey concepts and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what we're seeing here," Dr Harbottle added. However, Professor David Keightley of the University of California, Berkeley, urged caution, particularly over the proposed link to the much later Shang script." - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "Dolf Boek" wrote in message news:OaHna.11603$hF.90581@news-server.bigpond.net.au... Gladys, As I said, the claim by the cult of Mithra (ie. Roman Catholic Church), to be celebrating Jubilee2000 contemporaneously with the Y2K myth--like your Good Friday as 'chrsitianised' pretension to the Passover of the Hebrews--renders it mutually exclusive to any claim of 7th day Sabbath based, Torah compliant, Greek Philosophy compatible Christian Theology viz the Hebrew Torah Scholar, Greek Philosopher and Christian Apostle Paul's Epistles. The problem lays in the constructed, artificial and contrived moral view {ie. "In vain they do they worship God who keep and teach the commandments of men."} given by the cult of Mithra (ie. Roman Catholic Church) as their own theologian Dr. Edwin Hatch (c 1895) pre-Australain Consitution of 1901 conveys, that is, subscribing historically to Aristotle's metaphysical philosophy and Pythagoras' use of the Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as 72J + 3(3²+1)/2 = 457 BCE, was to accept an irrational religious nomenclature that gave to number attributes of gender and spermatic qualities--Such Greek ideas has "...given to later Christianity that part of it which is doomed to perish, and yet, while it lives, holds the key of the prison-house of many souls." [The Influence of Greek Ideas & Usages Upon the Christian Church, Edwin Hatch Dr. of Divinity, 1995, (Reprint of 5th ed., 1895), p 137-138] If I can equally define my religious belief, thought {Telos = Arch + c²} and conscience via number or otherwise according to the erroneous hymeneal values based cultic belief {ie. Sunday Sacred Sabbatarian antinomian Christians -- HYPOCRITES AND BLASPHEMERS IS STILL THE RIGHT WORD} which claims a wedding ring is evidence of Christian peity --Religion is then defined by 'gender and sexuality identity'. It would appear that "Gladys Swager" religious opinion on homosexuality is irrational and founded on superstitious religious dogmas as myths that have no substance in fact--Such claim to piety is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism--Her views are un-Constitutional. Thus if autonomy can be represented mathematically then my javascript {Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0.2600.000 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html } example is evidence of religious belief because it adheres to the principles of 7th day Sabbath originating Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy as wisdom. "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0304171308.5142e519@posting.google.com... Dolf, You have said a lot about a number of matters in your posting that has nothing to do with this topic of Homosexuality. What has been done at Sexuality/Abortion Clinics by a small group of people has been unlawful irrespective of one's attitude on such issues which should be debated rationally and without violence. It could be said that on this day, 18th April, 28 years ago I had begun my advocacy against certain Psychiatric treatments that had been used in the post-war years. (Electro Convulsive Shock (Therapy) treatments and Psychotropic medications and for alternative (more natural) means of managing states of mind and conditions that the Psychiatric profession had been experimenting with to e include within their treatment programmes. A secular-based profession had ignored the Bible and the comfort and guidance it had given to many through the centuries. There were areas in which charges could have been laid for inadequate diagnosis not taking into account environmental and physiological issues and incorrect treatments, but the Psychiatric profession protected itself by stating that following training meant a Psychiatrist could not be sued and by an intense media programme of criminal actions of some who had had Psychiatric treatments. It is of interest that some points I made in 1975 are now being presented as the way to go. I am posting the above to indicate I am not an idiot, although I do not have knowledge in some of the areas on which you write nor do I use the high level language which you, evidently, believe gives credibility to your viewpoint. The baseline is this. Homosexuality is a deviation from the norm. It was taken out of the Mental Illness category, despite the fact that it caused increased sexual diseases and othe medical problems. In the creation given in Genesis 1 and 2 of the Bible God told the man (Adam) and the woman (Eve) to be fruitful and to multiply ie. to increase the number of their kind. In homosexual behaviour that does not happen. I find the hormonal theory of causes very important in the finding a cure for a physiologically-based condition. I had theorised that imprinting could occur towards a male (doctor) during a very difficult childbirth. I wrote about that idea to a person in a Government department. What does concern me is the possibility of young teenagers being introduced to a homosexual/bisexual lifestyle (fornication/adultery) if they are presented as normal in school sexuality courses. When a woman taken in adultery was brought to Jesus by those who hoped He would support her stoning (as the Jewish law) He said, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." They all left. He told the woman to go her way and sin no more. Sexuality in humans is not intuitive. God has given us minds which allow us to choose whether to be involved or not. As a ten/eleven year old I chose not to marry when I chose teaching as my career at a time when, as far as I knew, there were no married women teachers in the education system. There are widows and widowers who remain faithful to their deceased spouses choosing not to marry again and to remain celibate for the rest of their lives. It may be of interest to know to what extent homosexuality was and still is a political issue in USA, Australia and elsewhere as secularists, as I am aware, were responsible for the breakdown of the educational systems i.e. a form of diversionary tactics as Talk-Back-Radio gave public access to the reporting of social problems. DOLF NOTES: Let's presuppose that the vKabbalah matrix as the Torah's cosmological, epistemological, ontological and Christological model [See vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0) http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] is representative of the Chinese conception of the TAO {ie. The Way-Hodos Gk.}: "But when Felix {happy, prosperous} heard these things, having a more accurate knowledge of the Way-HODOS {DAO/TAO TE as Way of Virtue}, he adjourned the proceedings and said, 'When Lysias {dissolving} the commander comes down, I will make a decision on your case.' So he commanded the centurion to keep Paul {small; little} and to let him have liberty, and told him not to forbid any of his friends to provide for or visit him. And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla {watered by the dew}, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, 'Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you.' Meanwhile he also hoped that money would be given him by Paul, that he might release him. Therefore he sent for him more often and conversed with him. But after two years Porcius Festus {festive, joyful} succeeded Felix; and Felix, wanting to do the Jews a favour, left Paul bound." [Acts 24:22-27] The #54 entry dealing with the Autonomy of Wisdom within Lao-Tzu's 'The Tao {Way} Te {of Vrtue} Ching' titled 'Culturing Perspectives/ The Cultivation of Intuition' reads as follow: "'#1 - What is well planted is not uprooted; #2 - What's well preserved can not be looted!' #3 - By sons and grandsons, #4 - the sacrificial celebrations shall not cease. #5 - Who cultivates Reason in his person, his virtue is genuine. #6 - Who cultures it in his house, his virtue is overflowing. #7 - Who cultivates it in his township, his virtue is lasting. #8 - Who cultivates it in his country, his virtue is abundant. #9 - Who cultivates it in the world, his virtue is universal. #10 - Therefore, #11 - By one's person one tests persons. #12 - By one's house one tests houses. #13 - By one's township one tests townships. #14 - By one's country one tests countries. #15 - By one's world one tests worlds.' #16 - How do I know that the world is such? #17 - Through IT" [The Teachings of Lao-Tzu © 1913 Paul Carus, © 2000 Jim Pym Thomas Dunn Books ISBN 0-312-26109-8] "Often the collections of proverbs are framed by what scholars call an 'instruction', that is, the literary device of a wise sage instructing his pupils or his children in the ways of wisdom. Sometimes the instruction is patently fictional, and the sage that 'speaks' through the proverbs is anonymous; sometimes the teacher is a real historical figure, such as Jesus ben Sira, who wrote the book of Sirach in the 2nd century BCE. At least two compositions among the Dead Sea Scrolls are wisdom instructions, 'The Book of Secrets' and the longer work called 'The Secret of the Way Things Are'." [Wise Abegg & Cook, The Dead Sea Scrolls (1Q27, 4Q299-3010)] Further to my comments that this Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the English language--it ought to be compatible with your idiomatic use of the language, are the comments from Chad Hansen, author of Language and Logic in Ancient China (1987) and who is Chair Professor of Chinese Philosophy at the University of Hong Kong. Concerning the TAO/DAO-'WAY Gk. Hodos' and its taxonomical connection to metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy I read: "These reflections about TAO/DAO {'WAY Gk. Hodos' } help highlight how the baseline concerns of Chinese philosophy differ from those of Indo-European philosophy. The deep parallel is that both traditions are interested in language. But the Geek and Hindu theories of language depend on the semantic concepts of meaning and truth. The Indo-European approach tries to explain linguistic meaning in relation to individuals and to a real world. We apprehend the meaning in the objective world. Language is about the real world. This Indo-European perspective treats the m[ai]n function of language as descriptive or representative. The role of language assumed in these theories is the communication of information about the world from one speaker to another. As a result, Indo-European philosophy has a particular kind of interest in metaphysics and epistemology. Its epistemologies address the question of how an individual can comprehend meaning and how he can know the world. {eg: 1) Nature contains Nature (FOCUS) 2) Nature rejoices in its Nature (EQUITY) 3) Nature surmounts Nature (RATIO) 1 + 2 + 3 = Supernal Triad which acts upon TIME {ie. Kepler's 3 Cosmological Laws} 4) Nature amended in its Nature [Aleph {1+30+80 = 111 /#6}] - Nature contains Nature (#1 - 22/7 as 3W1D - Adam) 5) Act of Nature [Beth {2+10+400 = 412 /#6}] - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#2 - 26J5W - Noah) 6) Form of Nature [Gimel {3+40+30 = 73 /#3}] - Nature surmounts Nature (#3 - 40J4W as Everlasting Covenant [Hebrews 6:13-20]) 7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}] - Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Torah @ Sinai]) 8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}] - Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} + 3(32+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) 9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}] - Form of Nature (#6 - cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of 69th week {72J71W5D} - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE) 10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}] - Engendering Nature (#7 - Telos Topical year solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days = 122J3W1D : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6 remaining)) Thus if the equation Telos {122J3W1D} = Arch {22/7 as 3W1D} + c2 representing the decade sequence, is then further synchronized with a topical solar eclipse occurring leap year cycle: 1997 {Wednesday}, 1998 {Thursday}, 1999 {Friday}, 2000 {Saturday} + Solar Eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days of the Topic Year. the number of elapsed days is precisely 2,191,455 days and evenly divisible by 7 = 31,3065. The Gregorian 400 year calendar is also in effect the elapse of a 7-day cycle within 400 years: 400 x 365.2425 {Length of topical year} = 146,097 days. The Sun is also 400 times larger than the Moon, it is 400 times farther from the Earth. A direct consequence of this fortuitous geometry is that during a total solar eclipse, the Moon occults the Sun with a nearly perfect fit. [Fred Espenak's 'Fifty Year Canon of Solar Eclipses: 1986-2035' as United States of America's NASA {The Goddard Space Flight Centre, Greenbelt, Maryland} Reference Publication 1178 Revised (July 1987) [ISBN 0-933346-45-X http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/093334645X ] } This leads both Western traditions (Indian and Greek) to a notion of a mind populated within inherently representative mental items: ideas. As we have seen, ideas constitute a kind of private language. Conventional languages, thus, become superficial in the Indo-European model. It is hardly controversial that Chinese philsosophy does not have the classical mind-body dualism of Western {ie Aristotle's metaphysical} philosophy {Although the Protestant Scholastic view of the Greek/Latin term 'Telos' as a mathematical description of the soul as entelechy marks an important counter, both for philosophy and for scholastic theology, to the Platonic dualism of soul and body. Just as Aristotelianism allows no separation of form and matter and no independent, extramental existence of universalia, so does it deny the dualism or separability of soul and body. http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/meta/time.html#TREE } We also accept that it has far less concern with epistemology. We certainly find none of the worry about the individual's experience of the world and its accuracy as a representation. The concern with knowledge in Confucius is linked directly to TAO/DAO {'WAY Gk. Hodos'}. Knowledge is knowledge of TAO/DAO, knowledge of what it can do. (The modern term for KNOW is zhi-dao KNOW WAY.) zhi-KNOWING and ignorance are determined by DAO/TAO. Thus, in The Analects, the translators frequently render zhi-KNOW as CLEVER. zhi-KNOWING is more akin to skill than to information processing. We should understand zhi-KNOW as KNOW-HOW or KNOW-TO rather than KNOW-THAT. To zhi-KNOW DAO/TAO is to know (how) to perform it properly. Finally, therefore, the focus at the early Confucian baseline is not on metaphysics, but on guidance. DAO/TAO does not communicate scientific truths, but ways to perform. DAO/TAO is initially and basically a perspective, not a descriptive concept. The role of language is not representing a reality that is external to our inner psyche. Its role is communicating and transmitting guidance to society from social leaders through history." [© 1992 Professor Chad Hansen, A Daoist Theory of Chinese Thought - A Philosophical Interpretation, p 85-86 - ISBN 0-19-506729-0 / 0-19-513419-2 (pbk.)] "There is no more reason to suppose that God has revealed metaphysics than that He has revealed chemistry. The Christian revelation is, at least primarily, a setting forth of certain facts. It does not in itself afford a guarantee of the certainty of the speculations which are built upon these facts. All such speculations are dogmas in the original sense of the word. They are simply personal convictions. To the statement of one man's convictions other men may assent: but they can never be quite sure that they understand its terms in the precise sense in which the original framer of the statement understood them. The belief that metaphysical theology is more than this, is the chief bequest of Greece to religious thought, and it has been a damnosa hereditas. It has given to later Christianity that part of it which is doomed to perish, and yet, while it lives, holds the key of the prison-house of many souls." [The Influence of Greek Ideas & Usages Upon the Christian Church, Edwin Hatch Dr. of Divinity, 1995, (Reprint of 5th ed., 1895), p 137-138] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0304161713.edab704@posting.google.com... I still have to answer in this way without the record of comments by other posters. Barry, you have not taken in what I posted. Homosexuality was an lifestyle that was detrimental to the social life in Biblical times. It was necessary to have as many children as possible; it was necessary to prevent sexually transmitted diseases - more from homosexual behaviour as well as promiscuous behaviour. A parallel is within Australian Aboriginal tribes in which there were laws of behaviour between the various tribal members. If certain rules were disobeyed the tribal elder would make it known that the person involved had had the bone pointed at him/her and that death would come in a short time. In Biblical times there was a death sentence for homosexuality because it was against the homogenity (of the same kind and nature) of the group. However, it would seem to me that harsh punishments were meant to discourage people from acting in ways that were considered anti-social and so prevent the punishment.. Women have had a role in all ethnic groups. In most instances that was child-bearing and caring. It has only been in modern times (from 1960) that there has been an emphasis on women working outside the home as conditions have been more favourable. You must see issues in the context of their times otherwise your attitude will be unbalanced. Christians have been responsible for much education in the past. When there was a limited number of books the Bible was the means of developing literacy in may languages. In respect of Australian Aborigines Christians made the first transaltions into Aboriginal languages. As Aborigines progressed in understandings some were trained for leadership roles. Christians are humans, as all others with other belief systems. Sometimes they have failed. Sometimes they worked through from a trail-and-error-sometimes-success situation. Secularists who criticise us have to realise that while they are 'pointing the finger of scorn' three fingers are pointing back at themselves. As the New Testament records "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" ie. No one is perfect as God is perfect. The New Testament also provides the way to perfection through Jesus Christ. As a woman I have preached in a church by extraordinary circumstances. I spoke of three things that Jesus Christ gives us. The penalty of sin has been taken by Jesus, the power of sin can be overcome, the day will come when we are removed from the presence of sin. In the past God spoke to our forfathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son Whom He appointed heir of all things and through Whom He made the Universe. Hebrews 1 : 1 - 2 Gladys DOLF NOTES ON #54: I can't let these public untruthful comments as ad hominem go unchallenged. Why should I, be subjected to unrelenting psychological abuse by Australians and Americans over the past 18 years due to my HIV status and for which I am persuing legal action for the factitious, vexatious and life impugning violation of religious rights and human and Constitutional rights--Your Freedom of speech doesn't include the impugnity of one's being--Your internet conduct is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism. That readers can view this diatribe of factitious, vexatious and life impugning internet discourse as it occurs day after day as though its entertainment, is contemptible and no doubt culturally representative--in that their superficial claim to piety extends only to luxuriate in celebrating that myth called Y2K, our Centenary as supposedly a civil and decent democratic peoples and the 27th Olympic Games. As my posts involve Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the English language--it ought to be compatible with your idiomatic use of the language. vPurple - Tue 15 Apr, 2003 ... vOrange - Friday 18 Apr, 2003 ... Sun 20 Apr, 2003 [ Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/rudolph.html?4/1/2003 ] Cell = 8 Initiative #1 - 36 Disposition #2 - 81 Synthesis #3 - 54 [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] Here's a reference to my public use of the term #54 with regards to this calendar which I'm researching. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:48:50 GMT From: "Dolf Boek" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,aus.religion.christian Subject: - [HTML] The Define #54 - Autonomy Bali Ho[a]xer Confesses! It is also true that given my reflecton of the Russell Street Police Complex bombing of 1pm Thursday 27 March, 1986: "Do you know what it is like to walk through a shattered building moments after a bomb has gone off. To have time [to] answer an incessant phone, to reassure the voice at the other end, that most were okay. And hope that Jack Inglis who borrowed his neighbour's car, got far enough away. And get to your destination, to find the police in disarray? I'm sure even Rob Jell will tell you, 'Nothing happens by accident.' So don't ever say, it can't happen here..." That after viewing the Bali bombing chaos in the darkness on 12 October, 2002 Sunday news program, I happened upon a covalescing street protest forming outside the Victoria State Library in Swanston Street, Melbourne. Having regard to my model below which was developed and conveyed as a gift to Spiral Dynamics Chris Cowan who is co-author with Psychiatrist Don Beck of "Spiral Dynamics -- Mastering values, leadership and change." I was acutely aware, post September 11, 2001 of the role that mass media plays in maintaining the psychological health of the populace and that the earlier the psychological intervention post disaster, the better the recovery back into the social matrix. Without infringing upon their right to protest, I invented some ambulatory rhetorics which sought to raise question on the actual number of dead as a result of the Bali bombing event. I said, "#54" and suggested it would be advantageous for the gathering to direct their energies to the question of defining Autonomy! As it isn't uncommon for me to correspond with Chris on mundane matters, "Here's a New Year thought for you. What's so special about 15 February, 2003 {#69 - Feb 15-19} and does it have a relationship to 11 September, 2001 {#43 - Sep 8-12}?" I provided my covenant #54 - vMeme CHAD {Ambulatory rhetorics} Pack as description of the event. You may be aware of Spiral Dynamic Practitioner and fellow Seventh-day Adventist Caleb Rosado's article entitled: 'When We Disagree - How Cultural Values Shape Our Conversation' [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/info/review27042000.html ] which expresses a sociological view that "A 'belief' or 'value system' is a worldview (kosmos), a set of perspectives/priorities/paradigms, a mind-set, an organizing framework for deep-level decision-making at the bottom line-which is why you can't compromise about it. Your value system is the threshold at which you won't negotiate. Each level of cultural and human development represents a value system, or to use a term coined by Richard Dawkins, a MEME. Just as genes carry the informational codes for our biological DNA, these value systems supply the codes (or MEME, rhymes with 'themes') that determine our 'cultural DNA.' Memes are ideas, beliefs, values, common ways of looking at the world that, like contagious viruses, spread from brain to brain through word of mouth, through media, through interaction between people. The third angel's message is a meme." Here is a recent newsgroup dialog on such the Subject of impugnity of life: "EDEN -- Now that we've had the Solar eclipse with a likely repeat in 28 years {viz. the Bible's chronology and hermeneutic}" Gadzooks {Colloq: God's hooks, ie. By the nails of Christ} Alan, your soi-disance has reached to here! "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message news:dL6J9.12964$B03.33770@news-server.bigpond.net.au... Alan have you soiled yourself again? That's what you get for dispensing impugnity with no rationale or substance! "Alan M" wrote in message news:Cj2J9.329$a5.1075@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... I wonder if they'd produce more gas than Dolf ? "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message: A cup of vinegar to you too! As usual, the only public testimony that Lawless (anti-nomian) and Godless "Teresita" as claimed depth of spiritual life as religious belief, is impugnity of life as the continued denial of others human, religious and constitutional rights. "Teresita" wrote in message news:asvn6202b9p@drn.newsguy.com... "Alan M" wrote in message news:UzII9.92999$g9.257790@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... >Do the cows understand what you're talking about ? They're thinking, "This guy makes us mad cows look like paragons of sanity." "Funny, I thought Jesus zapped the Commandments with his sacrifice: Eph 2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace" ["Teresita" Suggesting "THE STANDARD FOR HATE!" at 07:22:04 hours 2002-12-08 PST] "faust" wrote in message news:vph9vukcctaghdpt6gekssad3svfhbp3v4@4ax.com... Oh, and gargle babble to you too. "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message Speaking of goolies {Colloq: 1. a stone, 2. a testicle, 3. a gob of phlegm; also gooly -- Courtesy Macquarie Dictionary}, I was never much of a joke teller, but here's one from childhood innocence: Q. If I have a mothball in the left hand, and a mothball in the right hand -- what do I have? A. A bloody big moth! [Real Answer is a Homoth] The following Metaphysical Daemon Influence contains a reference to the Angelic influence Homoth within cell #69 of the Matrix. Mitzrael (Mizreal) [296°-300° /Jan 16-20 /Capricorn /Earth /= 330 (#1) Latin: Gloria Alt: Menkel {Cease Strife Before God}] { 1. HELPS HEAL THE ILLS OF THE SPIRIT, RELEASES FROM PERSECUTORS 2. MEN OF VIRTUE 3. FAITHFULNESS, INDUCES OBEDIENCE IN SUBORDINATES 4. Homoth} [#3 (#20/#52 - So What?/ Returning to the Origin) { FOCUS - 10J=490 reference to Jesus of Nazareth}] {KING}] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sat Apr 19 13:46:07 2003 A clarification to the taxonomical / Mathematical reference on the Torah's 10th letter cosmological law (the last four) are given below: "You shall not commit adultery" [Exodus 20:14] 7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}] - Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Torah @ Sinai]) "You shall not steal." [Exodus 20:15] 8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}] - Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} + 3(3²+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour." [Exodus 20:16] 9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}] - Form of Nature (#6 - cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of 69th week {72J71W5D} - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE) "My people, children of Israel {He that sees God; He that prevails with God} you shall not be covetous or companions or partners with those who covet, and covetous people shall not been seen in the congregation of Israel, lest your children arise after you and learn also to be a covetous people. No man of you shall covet the house of his neighbour, or his companion's wife, or his manservant or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass or anything that belogs to your neighbor, because by the sins of the covetous the ruling powers are incited against the sons of man.' 10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}] - Engendering Nature (#7 {122J3W1D} Telos Topical year solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6 remaining)) ... 9(9²+1)/2 = 369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} days with center #41 Mem = Thursday, 18 September, 2001 [#41 (#41/#41 - Playing with Reversal)] And all the people saw the thunders and the torches and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, and the people saw and trembled and stood afar off. And they said to Moses {taken out; drawn forth}, 'Speak you with us and we will hear, and let it not be spoken with us from before the Lord,' lest we die." And the people stood afar off and Moses drew near to the cloud where the Glory of the Shekinah of the Lord { Lord of SABAOTH, Lord of Hosts, Holy Spirit, Word, Memra, Forces & Authority over Chaos} dwelt. And the Lord said to Moses: 'Thus shall you say to the children of Israel, 'You have seeen that I have spoken with you from the heavens. You shall not make before me idols of silver, and idols of gold wyou shall not make for yourselves. An altar ou shall build fixed upon the earth to my Name, and you shall offer upon it your holocausts and your sacrifices of holy things and your sheep and your oxen; in every place that you remember my Name in prayer I will be revealed to you in (my) Memra and I will bless you. And if you build an altar of stones to my Name, you shall not build them of hewn stones, because if you pass iron (of which) the sword is made, over them you defile them. And you, priests, sons of Aaron {a teacher; lofty; mountain of strength}, who stand and serve upon my altar, you shall not go up by steps upon my altar lest your nakedness be revealed upon it." [© 1994 The Order of Saint Benedict Aramaic Targum of Neofiti (c 1496) Targum of Exodus 20:17-26] - dolf "Dolf Boek" wrote in message news:Lo1oa.613$8K2.2498@news-server.bigpond.net.au... It seems appropriate given the mythical, irrational and factitious non-biblical basis to Catholic religious dogma, that whenever instances of human, religious and unConstitutional persecution occurs as intrusions & violations of 'human gender and sexuality Identity' {be it by the Road Traffic Authority, your local hospital, or the police as examples which presently occur in Australia}, that steps are taken to take such complaints, the claims of the religious participant and the Institution before a court of civil law, so that such religious and treasonable malefactors may be publicly forced to recognise the sovereignty of our own constitution above the factitious claims of Roman religious dogma and their ecclesiatical law of traditions and their obligations to give compliance to it. The Catholic news service ZENIT today makes the following insubstantial claim of homosexuality with reference to the Roman Catholic Church's laws of tradition {a constructed, artificial and contrived moral world view} rather than the 7th-day Sabbath based universal law of the Torah given by YAHWEH in the Old Testament, from whence the Greeks borrowed their philosophy and ethics and dutifully observed by the New Testament era Hebrew/Christians until their exterminatation by collaboration between apostate Jews and succesive Roman Emperors: "The Catholic Medical Association is dedicated to upholding the principles of the Catholic Faith as related to the practice of medicine and to promoting Catholic medical ethics to the medical profession, including mental health professionals, the clergy, and the general public. No issue has raised more concern in the past decade than that of homosexuality and therefore the CMA offers the following summary and review of the status of the question. This summary relies extensively on the conclusions of various studies and points out the consistency of the teachings of the Church with these studies. It is hoped that this review will also serve as an educational and reference tool for Catholic clergy, physicians, mental health professionals, educators, parents and the general public. CMA supports the teachings of the Catholic Church as laid out in the revised version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in particular the teachings on sexuality: "All the baptized are called to chastity" (CCC, no. 2348); "Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence" (CCC, no. 2349); "tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. ... Under no circumstance can they be approved" (CCC, no. 2333)." [Ref http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=34443 ] - dolf "Dolf Boek" wrote in message news:9Z_na.191$8K2.697@news-server.bigpond.net.au... In response to your claim that, "I have said a lot about a number of matters in your posting that has nothing to do with this topic of Homosexuality."--Is the Greek idea of 'Heteros' {ie. one or the other of two, To Number as with Pronouns of quantity, ordinals--heteroi autoi second selves-- http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/lexindex?lookup=e(/teros&lang=greek } as the irrational Greek {Pythagoras, Plato, Aristotle metaphysical orginiating} religious nomenclature {{ie. Secret of male & female in Hellenised Jewish nomenclature adopted from Pythagorean Theory of Number} that gave to number attributes of gender and spermatic qualities, and which forms the basis of the fanciful and obsolete present day Catholic geometric universal dogma of the biscuit known as the Eucharist. As I am able to fully articulate my religious belief, thought {Telos {122J3W1D as 6,000 years} = Arch {0} + c²} and conscience as a theology as a cosmological, epistemological, ontological and Christological model which is compliant with Torah metaphysics and Regulative Philosophy, you ought to recognise that the myth you claim as your religious belief--Catholic or otherwise--is insufficient justification for the continued religious values based 'human gender and sexuality identity' persecution which you continue to make on the basis of erroneous and irrational Christian belief. And that such anti-nomian conduct by you may be clearly viewed as an infringement of human, religious and Constitutional rights: "I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men. Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. DO YOU HAVE FAITH? HAVE IT TO YOURSELF BEFORE GOD. HAPPY IS HE WHO DOES NOT CONDEMN HIMSELF IN WHAT HE APPROVES. BUT HE WHO DOUBTS IS CONDEMNED IF HE EATS, BECAUSE HE DOES NOT EAT FROM FAITH; FOR WHATEVER IS NOT FROM FAITH IS SIN." [© 1982 Thomas Nelson, New King James Romans 14:14-23] The interplay of these cosmological images on providence are satirically conveyed within the story of Apostle Paul's allegedly slanderous infraction of the Institutional sensibilities of those who appoint themselves as the Religiously Elite. The Roman orator Tertullus' {third} similarly makes a thrice declaration of 'katorthoma' within his false accusation against the Apostle Paul before Felix {happy, prosperous, that brings good luck, of good omen, auspicious, favorable, propitious, fortunate, felicitous} the Roman procurator of Judea and Samaria around 50-60 CE. Although the Roman historian Tacitus depicts Felix as practicing every kind of cruelty and lust, 'wielding the power of king with all the instincts of a slave' [Hist. v 9], there is popular proclamation and praise amongst the conspiratorial members of the Sanhedrin, that the prosperous direction (stoicheo) undertaken by the Jewish nation within the region is primarily due to Felix's providential leadership, which is to be embraced as right conduct under the direction of Divine Wisdom: "And when he was called upon, Tertullus began his accusation, saying: 'Seeing that through you we enjoy great-polus peace-eirene, and prosperity-katorthoma (x 3) is being brought-ginomai to this nation-ethnos by your foresight-pronoia (providence), we accept-apodechomai it always-pante and in all-pantachou places-pantachou most-kratistos noble-kratistos Felix, with all thankfulness-EUCHARISTIA. Nevertheless, not to be tedious to you any further, I beg you to hear, by your courtesy, a few words from us. For we have found this man to be a plague, a creator of dissension among the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes {one chosen or set apart; separated; crowned; sanctified}. He even tried to profane the temple, and we seized him, and wanted to judge him according to our law." [Acts 24:2-4] In reality the outrage amongst the Jews is consequenced by the Apostle's teleological dissention on Messianic expectations expressed by the concept 'resurrection of the dead' [Acts 3:13-26] and prophetically foretold within parabolic discourse on the Law: "Who would live in those days when the Lord sets his mighty anger to take vengeance of the wicked, to give the reward of the just ones,and when he lets kingdoms loose one against the other? Numerous multitudes {Kittim} shall come forth in Liburnian {light barks; piratical-minded dwellers of the Dalmation coast} ships of insolent language from the region of Italy {abounding with calves or heifers} that is Rome {strength; power}. And many legions of the Romans {strong; powerful} shall join with them, and they shall enslave the Assyrians {who is happy; or walks; or looks} and afflict (the region) beyond the River (Euphrates); and their end will be destruction and their destruction shall be forever." [Targum Neofiti 1: Numbers 24:23-24] The WWW-page URL reference to the BBC Interactive article is included below... In support of my earlier comments that this Torah's 6,000 year old metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the Hebrew/English language--which ought to be compatible with the widest possible idiomatic use of the language, and the comments from Professor Chad Hansen {author of Language and Logic in Ancient China (1987) and who is Chair Professor of Chinese Philosophy at the University of Hong Kong} on the obfuscated connection between metaphysical theology/regulative philosophy and language taxonomy, is this article from BBC Interactive which redfines our knowledge of the 'Earliest writing' found in China... By Paul Rincon BBC Science Correspondent http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2956925.stm Courtesy: BBC Interactive, Thursday, 17 April, 2003, 17:39 GMT 18:39 UK Birth of writing? Symbols on Chinese tortoiseshell date back 8,000 years The symbols were written down in the late Stone Age, or Neolithic Age. They predate the earliest recorded writings from Mesopotamia - in what is now Iraq - by more than 2,000 years. The archaeologists say they bear similarities to written characters used thousands of years later during the Shang dynasty, which lasted from 1700-1100 BC. But the discovery has already generated controversy, with one leading researcher in the field branding it "an anomaly". The archaeologists have identified 11 separate symbols inscribed on the tortoise shells. The shells were found buried with human remains in 24 Neolithic graves unearthed at Jiahu in Henan province, western China. The site has been radiocarbon dated to between 6,600 and 6,200 BC. The research was carried out by Dr Garman Harbottle, of the Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York and a team of archaeologists at the University of Science and Technology of China in Anhui province. 'What [the markings] appear to show are meaningful signs that have a correspondence with ancient Chinese writing,' said Dr Harbottle. The Neolithic markings include symbols that resemble the characters for 'eye' and 'window' and the numerals eight and 20 in the Shang script. "If you pick up a bottle with a skull and crossbones on it, you know instantly that it's poison without the word being spelt out. We're used to signs that convey concepts and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what we're seeing here," Dr Harbottle added. However, Professor David Keightley of the University of California, Berkeley, urged caution, particularly over the proposed link to the much later Shang script." - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "Dolf Boek" wrote in message news:OaHna.11603$hF.90581@news-server.bigpond.net.au... Gladys, As I said, the claim by the cult of Mithra (ie. Roman Catholic Church), to be celebrating Jubilee2000 contemporaneously with the Y2K myth--like your Good Friday as 'chrsitianised' pretension to the Passover of the Hebrews--renders it mutually exclusive to any claim of 7th day Sabbath based, Torah compliant, Greek Philosophy compatible Christian Theology viz the Hebrew Torah Scholar, Greek Philosopher and Christian Apostle Paul's Epistles. The problem lays in the constructed, artificial and contrived moral view {ie. "In vain do they worship God who keep and teach the commandments of men."} given by the cult of Mithra (ie. Roman Catholic Church) as their own theologian Dr. Edwin Hatch (c 1895) pre-Australain Consitution of 1901 conveys, that is, subscribing historically to Aristotle's metaphysical philosophy and Pythagoras' use of the Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as 72J + 3(3²+1)/2 = 457 BCE, was to accept an irrational religious nomenclature that gave to number attributes of gender and spermatic qualities--Such Greek ideas has "...given to later Christianity that part of it which is doomed to perish, and yet, while it lives, holds the key of the prison-house of many souls." [The Influence of Greek Ideas & Usages Upon the Christian Church, Edwin Hatch Dr. of Divinity, 1995, (Reprint of 5th ed., 1895), p 137-138] If I can equally define my religious belief, thought {Telos = Arch + c²} and conscience via number or otherwise according to the erroneous hymeneal values based cultic belief {ie. Sunday Sacred Sabbatarian antinomian Christians -- HYPOCRITES AND BLASPHEMERS IS STILL THE RIGHT WORD} which claims a wedding ring is evidence of Christian peity --Religion is then defined by 'gender and sexuality identity'. It would appear that "Gladys Swager" religious opinion on homosexuality is irrational and founded on superstitious religious dogmas as myths that have no substance in fact--Such claim to piety is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism--Her views are un-Constitutional. Thus if autonomy can be represented mathematically then my javascript {Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0.2600.000 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html } example is evidence of religious belief because it adheres to the principles of 7th day Sabbath originating Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy as wisdom. "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0304171308.5142e519@posting.google.com... Dolf, You have said a lot about a number of matters in your posting that has nothing to do with this topic of Homosexuality. What has been done at Sexuality/Abortion Clinics by a small group of people has been unlawful irrespective of one's attitude on such issues which should be debated rationally and without violence. It could be said that on this day, 18th April, 28 years ago I had begun my advocacy against certain Psychiatric treatments that had been used in the post-war years. (Electro Convulsive Shock (Therapy) treatments and Psychotropic medications and for alternative (more natural) means of managing states of mind and conditions that the Psychiatric profession had been experimenting with to e include within their treatment programmes. A secular-based profession had ignored the Bible and the comfort and guidance it had given to many through the centuries. There were areas in which charges could have been laid for inadequate diagnosis not taking into account environmental and physiological issues and incorrect treatments, but the Psychiatric profession protected itself by stating that following training meant a Psychiatrist could not be sued and by an intense media programme of criminal actions of some who had had Psychiatric treatments. It is of interest that some points I made in 1975 are now being presented as the way to go. I am posting the above to indicate I am not an idiot, although I do not have knowledge in some of the areas on which you write nor do I use the high level language which you, evidently, believe gives credibility to your viewpoint. The baseline is this. Homosexuality is a deviation from the norm. It was taken out of the Mental Illness category, despite the fact that it caused increased sexual diseases and othe medical problems. In the creation given in Genesis 1 and 2 of the Bible God told the man (Adam) and the woman (Eve) to be fruitful and to multiply ie. to increase the number of their kind. In homosexual behaviour that does not happen. I find the hormonal theory of causes very important in the finding a cure for a physiologically-based condition. I had theorised that imprinting could occur towards a male (doctor) during a very difficult childbirth. I wrote about that idea to a person in a Government department. What does concern me is the possibility of young teenagers being introduced to a homosexual/bisexual lifestyle (fornication/adultery) if they are presented as normal in school sexuality courses. When a woman taken in adultery was brought to Jesus by those who hoped He would support her stoning (as the Jewish law) He said, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." They all left. He told the woman to go her way and sin no more. Sexuality in humans is not intuitive. God has given us minds which allow us to choose whether to be involved or not. As a ten/eleven year old I chose not to marry when I chose teaching as my career at a time when, as far as I knew, there were no married women teachers in the education system. There are widows and widowers who remain faithful to their deceased spouses choosing not to marry again and to remain celibate for the rest of their lives. It may be of interest to know to what extent homosexuality was and still is a political issue in USA, Australia and elsewhere as secularists, as I am aware, were responsible for the breakdown of the educational systems i.e. a form of diversionary tactics as Talk-Back-Radio gave public access to the reporting of social problems. DOLF NOTES: Let's presuppose that the vKabbalah matrix as the Torah's cosmological, epistemological, ontological and Christological model [See vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0) http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] is representative of the Chinese conception of the TAO {ie. The Way-Hodos Gk.}: "But when Felix {happy, prosperous} heard these things, having a more accurate knowledge of the Way-HODOS {DAO/TAO TE as Way of Virtue}, he adjourned the proceedings and said, 'When Lysias {dissolving} the commander comes down, I will make a decision on your case.' So he commanded the centurion to keep Paul {small; little} and to let him have liberty, and told him not to forbid any of his friends to provide for or visit him. And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla {watered by the dew}, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, 'Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you.' Meanwhile he also hoped that money would be given him by Paul, that he might release him. Therefore he sent for him more often and conversed with him. But after two years Porcius Festus {festive, joyful} succeeded Felix; and Felix, wanting to do the Jews a favour, left Paul bound." [Acts 24:22-27] The #54 entry dealing with the Autonomy of Wisdom within Lao-Tzu's 'The Tao {Way} Te {of Vrtue} Ching' titled 'Culturing Perspectives/ The Cultivation of Intuition' reads as follow: "'#1 - What is well planted is not uprooted; #2 - What's well preserved can not be looted!' #3 - By sons and grandsons, #4 - the sacrificial celebrations shall not cease. #5 - Who cultivates Reason in his person, his virtue is genuine. #6 - Who cultures it in his house, his virtue is overflowing. #7 - Who cultivates it in his township, his virtue is lasting. #8 - Who cultivates it in his country, his virtue is abundant. #9 - Who cultivates it in the world, his virtue is universal. #10 - Therefore, #11 - By one's person one tests persons. #12 - By one's house one tests houses. #13 - By one's township one tests townships. #14 - By one's country one tests countries. #15 - By one's world one tests worlds.' #16 - How do I know that the world is such? #17 - Through IT" [The Teachings of Lao-Tzu © 1913 Paul Carus, © 2000 Jim Pym Thomas Dunn Books ISBN 0-312-26109-8] "Often the collections of proverbs are framed by what scholars call an 'instruction', that is, the literary device of a wise sage instructing his pupils or his children in the ways of wisdom. Sometimes the instruction is patently fictional, and the sage that 'speaks' through the proverbs is anonymous; sometimes the teacher is a real historical figure, such as Jesus ben Sira, who wrote the book of Sirach in the 2nd century BCE. At least two compositions among the Dead Sea Scrolls are wisdom instructions, 'The Book of Secrets' and the longer work called 'The Secret of the Way Things Are'." [Wise Abegg & Cook, The Dead Sea Scrolls (1Q27, 4Q299-3010)] Further to my comments that this Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the English language--it ought to be compatible with your idiomatic use of the language, are the comments from Chad Hansen, author of Language and Logic in Ancient China (1987) and who is Chair Professor of Chinese Philosophy at the University of Hong Kong. Concerning the TAO/DAO-'WAY Gk. Hodos' and its taxonomical connection to metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy I read: "These reflections about TAO/DAO {'WAY Gk. Hodos' } help highlight how the baseline concerns of Chinese philosophy differ from those of Indo-European philosophy. The deep parallel is that both traditions are interested in language. But the Geek and Hindu theories of language depend on the semantic concepts of meaning and truth. The Indo-European approach tries to explain linguistic meaning in relation to individuals and to a real world. We apprehend the meaning in the objective world. Language is about the real world. This Indo-European perspective treats the m[ai]n function of language as descriptive or representative. The role of language assumed in these theories is the communication of information about the world from one speaker to another. As a result, Indo-European philosophy has a particular kind of interest in metaphysics and epistemology. Its epistemologies address the question of how an individual can comprehend meaning and how he can know the world. {eg: 1) Nature contains Nature (FOCUS) 2) Nature rejoices in its Nature (EQUITY) 3) Nature surmounts Nature (RATIO) 1 + 2 + 3 = Supernal Triad which acts upon TIME {ie. Kepler's 3 Cosmological Laws} 4) Nature amended in its Nature [Aleph {1+30+80 = 111 /#6}] - Nature contains Nature (#1 - 22/7 as 3W1D - Adam) 5) Act of Nature [Beth {2+10+400 = 412 /#6}] - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#2 - 26J5W - Noah) 6) Form of Nature [Gimel {3+40+30 = 73 /#3}] - Nature surmounts Nature (#3 - 40J4W as Everlasting Covenant [Hebrews 6:13-20]) 7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}] - Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Torah @ Sinai]) 8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}] - Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} + 3(3²+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) 9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}] - Form of Nature (#6 - cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of 69th week {72J71W5D} - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE) 10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}]
- Engendering Nature (#7 {122J3W1D} Telos Topical year solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6 remaining)) ... 9(9²+1)/2 = 369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} days with center #41 Mem = Thursday, 18 September, 2001 [#41 (#41/#41 - Playing with Reversal)] Thus if the equation Telos {122J3W1D} = Arch {22/7 as 3W1D} + c2 representing the decade sequence, is then further synchronized with a topical solar eclipse occurring leap year cycle: 1997 {Wednesday}, 1998 {Thursday}, 1999 {Friday}, 2000 {Saturday} + Solar Eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days of the Topic Year. the number of elapsed days is precisely 2,191,455 days and evenly divisible by 7 = 31,3065. The Gregorian 400 year calendar is also in effect the elapse of a 7-day cycle within 400 years: 400 x 365.2425 {Length of topical year} = 146,097 days. The Sun is also 400 times larger than the Moon, it is 400 times farther from the Earth. A direct consequence of this fortuitous geometry is that during a total solar eclipse, the Moon occults the Sun with a nearly perfect fit. [Fred Espenak's 'Fifty Year Canon of Solar Eclipses: 1986-2035' as United States of America's NASA {The Goddard Space Flight Centre, Greenbelt, Maryland} Reference Publication 1178 Revised (July 1987) [ISBN 0-933346-45-X http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/093334645X ] } This leads both Western traditions (Indian and Greek) to a notion of a mind populated within inherently representative mental items: ideas. As we have seen, ideas constitute a kind of private language. Conventional languages, thus, become superficial in the Indo-European model. It is hardly controversial that Chinese philsosophy does not have the classical mind-body dualism of Western {ie Aristotle's metaphysical} philosophy {Although the Protestant Scholastic view of the Greek/Latin term 'Telos' as a mathematical description of the soul as entelechy marks an important counter, both for philosophy and for scholastic theology, to the Platonic dualism of soul and body. Just as Aristotelianism allows no separation of form and matter and no independent, extramental existence of universalia, so does it deny the dualism or separability of soul and body. http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/meta/time.html#TREE } We also accept that it has far less concern with epistemology. We certainly find none of the worry about the individual's experience of the world and its accuracy as a representation. The concern with knowledge in Confucius is linked directly to TAO/DAO {'WAY Gk. Hodos'}. Knowledge is knowledge of TAO/DAO, knowledge of what it can do. (The modern term for KNOW is zhi-dao KNOW WAY.) zhi-KNOWING and ignorance are determined by DAO/TAO. Thus, in The Analects, the translators frequently render zhi-KNOW as CLEVER. zhi-KNOWING is more akin to skill than to information processing. We should understand zhi-KNOW as KNOW-HOW or KNOW-TO rather than KNOW-THAT. To zhi-KNOW DAO/TAO is to know (how) to perform it properly. Finally, therefore, the focus at the early Confucian baseline is not on metaphysics, but on guidance. DAO/TAO does not communicate scientific truths, but ways to perform. DAO/TAO is initially and basically a perspective, not a descriptive concept. The role of language is not representing a reality that is external to our inner psyche. Its role is communicating and transmitting guidance to society from social leaders through history." [© 1992 Professor Chad Hansen, A Daoist Theory of Chinese Thought - A Philosophical Interpretation, p 85-86 - ISBN 0-19-506729-0 / 0-19-513419-2 (pbk.)] "There is no more reason to suppose that God has revealed metaphysics than that He has revealed chemistry. The Christian revelation is, at least primarily, a setting forth of certain facts. It does not in itself afford a guarantee of the certainty of the speculations which are built upon these facts. All such speculations are dogmas in the original sense of the word. They are simply personal convictions. To the statement of one man's convictions other men may assent: but they can never be quite sure that they understand its terms in the precise sense in which the original framer of the statement understood them. The belief that metaphysical theology is more than this, is the chief bequest of Greece to religious thought, and it has been a damnosa hereditas. It has given to later Christianity that part of it which is doomed to perish, and yet, while it lives, holds the key of the prison-house of many souls." [The Influence of Greek Ideas & Usages Upon the Christian Church, Edwin Hatch Dr. of Divinity, 1995, (Reprint of 5th ed., 1895), p 137-138] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0304161713.edab704@posting.google.com... I still have to answer in this way without the record of comments by other posters. Barry, you have not taken in what I posted. Homosexuality was an lifestyle that was detrimental to the social life in Biblical times. It was necessary to have as many children as possible; it was necessary to prevent sexually transmitted diseases - more from homosexual behaviour as well as promiscuous behaviour. A parallel is within Australian Aboriginal tribes in which there were laws of behaviour between the various tribal members. If certain rules were disobeyed the tribal elder would make it known that the person involved had had the bone pointed at him/her and that death would come in a short time. In Biblical times there was a death sentence for homosexuality because it was against the homogenity (of the same kind and nature) of the group. However, it would seem to me that harsh punishments were meant to discourage people from acting in ways that were considered anti-social and so prevent the punishment.. Women have had a role in all ethnic groups. In most instances that was child-bearing and caring. It has only been in modern times (from 1960) that there has been an emphasis on women working outside the home as conditions have been more favourable. You must see issues in the context of their times otherwise your attitude will be unbalanced. Christians have been responsible for much education in the past. When there was a limited number of books the Bible was the means of developing literacy in may languages. In respect of Australian Aborigines Christians made the first transaltions into Aboriginal languages. As Aborigines progressed in understandings some were trained for leadership roles. Christians are humans, as all others with other belief systems. Sometimes they have failed. Sometimes they worked through from a trail-and-error-sometimes-success situation. Secularists who criticise us have to realise that while they are 'pointing the finger of scorn' three fingers are pointing back at themselves. As the New Testament records "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" ie. No one is perfect as God is perfect. The New Testament also provides the way to perfection through Jesus Christ. As a woman I have preached in a church by extraordinary circumstances. I spoke of three things that Jesus Christ gives us. The penalty of sin has been taken by Jesus, the power of sin can be overcome, the day will come when we are removed from the presence of sin. In the past God spoke to our forfathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son Whom He appointed heir of all things and through Whom He made the Universe. Hebrews 1 : 1 - 2 Gladys DOLF NOTES ON #54: I can't let these public untruthful comments as ad hominem go unchallenged. Why should I, be subjected to unrelenting psychological abuse by Australians and Americans over the past 18 years due to my HIV status and for which I am persuing legal action for the factitious, vexatious and life impugning violation of religious rights and human and Constitutional rights--Your Freedom of speech doesn't include the impugnity of one's being--Your internet conduct is the equal of the intrusions and violations of 'human gender and sexuality identity' imposed upon European Jews by fascism. That readers can view this diatribe of factitious, vexatious and life impugning internet discourse as it occurs day after day as though its entertainment, is contemptible and no doubt culturally representative--in that their superficial claim to piety extends only to luxuriate in celebrating that myth called Y2K, our Centenary as supposedly a civil and decent democratic peoples and the 27th Olympic Games. As my posts involve Torah metaphysical theology and regulative philosophy, as the wisdom architecture which underpins the English language--it ought to be compatible with your idiomatic use of the language. vPurple - Tue 15 Apr, 2003 ... vOrange - Friday 18 Apr, 2003 ... Sun 20 Apr, 2003 [ Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/rudolph.html?4/1/2003 ] Cell = 8 Initiative #1 - 36 Disposition #2 - 81 Synthesis #3 - 54 [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html ] Here's a reference to my public use of the term #54 with regards to this calendar which I'm researching. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:48:50 GMT From: "Dolf Boek" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,aus.religion.christian Subject: - [HTML] The Define #54 - Autonomy Bali Ho[a]xer Confesses! It is also true that given my reflecton of the Russell Street Police Complex bombing of 1pm Thursday 27 March, 1986: "Do you know what it is like to walk through a shattered building moments after a bomb has gone off. To have time [to] answer an incessant phone, to reassure the voice at the other end, that most were okay. And hope that Jack Inglis who borrowed his neighbour's car, got far enough away. And get to your destination, to find the police in disarray? I'm sure even Rob Jell will tell you, 'Nothing happens by accident.' So don't ever say, it can't happen here..." That after viewing the Bali bombing chaos in the darkness on 12 October, 2002 Sunday news program, I happened upon a covalescing street protest forming outside the Victoria State Library in Swanston Street, Melbourne. Having regard to my model below which was developed and conveyed as a gift to Spiral Dynamics Chris Cowan who is co-author with Psychiatrist Don Beck of "Spiral Dynamics -- Mastering values, leadership and change." I was acutely aware, post September 11, 2001 of the role that mass media plays in maintaining the psychological health of the populace and that the earlier the psychological intervention post disaster, the better the recovery back into the social matrix. Without infringing upon their right to protest, I invented some ambulatory rhetorics which sought to raise question on the actual number of dead as a result of the Bali bombing event. I said, "#54" and suggested it would be advantageous for the gathering to direct their energies to the question of defining Autonomy! As it isn't uncommon for me to correspond with Chris on mundane matters, "Here's a New Year thought for you. What's so special about 15 February, 2003 {#69 - Feb 15-19} and does it have a relationship to 11 September, 2001 {#43 - Sep 8-12}?" I provided my covenant #54 - vMeme CHAD {Ambulatory rhetorics} Pack as description of the event. You may be aware of Spiral Dynamic Practitioner and fellow Seventh-day Adventist Caleb Rosado's article entitled: 'When We Disagree - How Cultural Values Shape Our Conversation' [Ref: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/info/review27042000.html ] which expresses a sociological view that "A 'belief' or 'value system' is a worldview (kosmos), a set of perspectives/priorities/paradigms, a mind-set, an organizing framework for deep-level decision-making at the bottom line-which is why you can't compromise about it. Your value system is the threshold at which you won't negotiate. Each level of cultural and human development represents a value system, or to use a term coined by Richard Dawkins, a MEME. Just as genes carry the informational codes for our biological DNA, these value systems supply the codes (or MEME, rhymes with 'themes') that determine our 'cultural DNA.' Memes are ideas, beliefs, values, common ways of looking at the world that, like contagious viruses, spread from brain to brain through word of mouth, through media, through interaction between people. The third angel's message is a meme." Here is a recent newsgroup dialog on such the Subject of impugnity of life: "EDEN -- Now that we've had the Solar eclipse with a likely repeat in 28 years {viz. the Bible's chronology and hermeneutic}" Gadzooks {Colloq: God's hooks, ie. By the nails of Christ} Alan, your soi-disance has reached to here! "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message news:dL6J9.12964$B03.33770@news-server.bigpond.net.au... Alan have you soiled yourself again? That's what you get for dispensing impugnity with no rationale or substance! "Alan M" wrote in message news:Cj2J9.329$a5.1075@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... I wonder if they'd produce more gas than Dolf ? "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message: A cup of vinegar to you too! As usual, the only public testimony that Lawless (anti-nomian) and Godless "Teresita" as claimed depth of spiritual life as religious belief, is impugnity of life as the continued denial of others human, religious and constitutional rights. "Teresita" wrote in message news:asvn6202b9p@drn.newsguy.com... "Alan M" wrote in message news:UzII9.92999$g9.257790@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... >Do the cows understand what you're talking about ? They're thinking, "This guy makes us mad cows look like paragons of sanity." "Funny, I thought Jesus zapped the Commandments with his sacrifice: Eph 2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace" ["Teresita" Suggesting "THE STANDARD FOR HATE!" at 07:22:04 hours 2002-12-08 PST] "faust" wrote in message news:vph9vukcctaghdpt6gekssad3svfhbp3v4@4ax.com... Oh, and gargle babble to you too. "Dolf Boek" previously wrote in message Speaking of goolies {Colloq: 1. a stone, 2. a testicle, 3. a gob of phlegm; also gooly -- Courtesy Macquarie Dictionary}, I was never much of a joke teller, but here's one from childhood innocence: Q. If I have a mothball in the left hand, and a mothball in the right hand -- what do I have? A. A bloody big moth! [Real Answer is a Homoth] The following Metaphysical Daemon Influence contains a reference to the Angelic influence Homoth within cell #69 of the Matrix. Mitzrael (Mizreal) [296°-300° /Jan 16-20 /Capricorn /Earth /= 330 (#1) Latin: Gloria Alt: Menkel {Cease Strife Before God}] { 1. HELPS HEAL THE ILLS OF THE SPIRIT, RELEASES FROM PERSECUTORS 2. MEN OF VIRTUE 3. FAITHFULNESS, INDUCES OBEDIENCE IN SUBORDINATES 4. Homoth} [#3 (#20/#52 - So What?/ Returning to the Origin) { FOCUS - 10J=490 reference to Jesus of Nazareth}] {KING}] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Fri Apr 25 11:33:06 2003 Excluding of course the Myrtle {Hadas - He, Daleth, Samek} trees and the commemorative plaques for those who died! A fitting memorial given the cult leader's sexual proclivity and messianic predilections: "And on the second day were gathered together the chief of the fathers of all the people, the priests, and the Levites {Associated with him}, unto Ezra the scribe { help; court; thought an abbreviation of "Yahweh gives assistance' or 'Yahweh has helped'; A contemporary of prophet Daniel, Zechariah and King Zerebabbel in Babylonian captivity; First in the order of Scribes, who with a royal decree in his hand, accompanied by a 2nd band of Jewish exiles {and King Zerubabbel {Offspring of Babylon} arrived in Jerusalem in the 5th month circa August 457 BCE (if the 7th year of the reign is to be reckoned according to the Jewish fall-to-fall civil year beginning half a year later than the Persian year, which ran from Spring to Spring.) Finding the Jews of Palestine lax in observing the requirements of the Law, he instituted a thoroughgoing series of reforms. Many of the priests and others who had married heathen wives were persuaded to divorce them. Ref: SDA Bible Commentary Reference Series 1979 8:357 A metaphysical theological connection is made between the Angel of God as a mathematical metaschema obtained from a transliteration of [Exodus 14:19-21; cf: Luke 12: 8-12] and the Memra {Lord of SABAOTH, Lord of Hosts, Shekinah, Holy Spirit, Word, Forces & Authority over Chaos} within the writings of Zechariah {memory of the Lord -- vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html } Vehuel [241°-245° /Nov 23-27 /Sagittarius /Fire /Vav{6} He{5} Vav{6} = 17 (#3) Latin: Mirabilis Alt: Natahyah {The Cutting of God}] { 1. HELPS FIND PEACE AGAINST TROUBLE 2. GREAT PERSONALITIES {Zerubbabel - offspring of Babylon - [72J] + 3(3²+1)/2 as [2W1D] = 457 BCE ...} 3. HUMILITY {#6 - Solar eclipse Nov 25, 2030} [#49 (#46#/59 - A Sensible Guide/ Hold Fast To Reason)] {PAWN} Daniel [246°-250° /Nov 28-Dec 2 /Sagittarius /Fire /Daleth{4} Nun{50} Yod{10} = 64 (#1) Latin: Invacandus Alt: Haayah {Behold God}] {God is my judge 1. PROTECTS & CONSOLES. INSPIRES IN DECISIONS 2. JUSTICE AND LAWYERS 3. JUDGES} [#2 (#47/#10 - Impossible Advice/ What can Be Done?) {Engendering NATURE}] {PAWN} Hahaziah [251°-255° /Dec 3-7 /Sagittarius /Fire /He{5} Heth{8} Shin{300}= 313 (#5) Latin: Salvator Alt: Yarahel {Archery of God}] { 1. HELPS THOSE WHO WISH TO KNOW THE OCCULT MYSTERIES 2. CHEMISTRY {#8 - Solar eclipse Wed Dec 4, 2002 + 28 years} 3. THE ABSTRACT SCIENCES} [#9 (#31/#51 - Natural Guides and Natural Virtuosity/ Nursing Virtue) {Form of NATURE}] {PAWN} http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "I saw in the night, and behold, a man riding upon a red horse, and he was standing among the myrtle trees which were in Babylon {confusion; mixture}; and behind were red, white-spotted and white horses. And I said, 'What are these, my Lord?' And the angel who was speaking with me said to me, 'I will show you what they are.' And the man who was standing among the myrtle trees answered and said, 'These are they whom the Lord was sent to go about the earth.' And they answered the angel of the Lord who was standing among the myrtle trees and said, 'We have gone about the earth and, behold, all the earth remains at ease and at rest.' And the angel of the Lord answered and said, 'O Lord of Hosts, how long will you not have mercy upon Jerusalem and upon the cities of the house of Judah, upon which you have brought a curse these seventy years? And the Lord answered the angel who was speaking to me with right words, words of consolation." [© 1982 Micahel Glazner The Aramaic Targum of Zechariah 1:8-13] }, Even to understand the words of the law. And they found written in the law which the LORD {YHWH} had commanded by Moses {taken out; drawn forth}, that the children of Israel should dwell in booths in the feast of the seventh month: And that they should publish and proclaim in all their cities, and in Jerusalem {vision of peace}, saying, Go forth unto the mount, and fetch olive branches, and pine branches, and myrtle branches, and palm branches, and branches of thick trees, to make booths, as it is written." [© 1982 Nelson Thomas, New King James Version Nehemiah 8:13-14] "Give ear to my Memra {Lord of SABAOTH, Lord of Hosts, Shekinah, Holy Spirit, Word, Forces & Authority over Chaos}, O islands; let kingdoms increase (their) force; let them approach, then let them speak; let us together draw near for judgment. Who brought Abraham {Father of a multitude} openly from the east, a select one of righteousness in truth? He brought him to his place, handed over peoples before him and shattered kings; he cast the slain like dust before his sword, he pursued them like chaff before his bow. He pursued them and passed on safely; a forced march did not tire his feet. Who says these things? One who lives, speaks and acts, the One ordering the Generations from the beginning. I, the LORD, created the world from creation, even the ages of the ages are mine, and besides me none is God. The islands have seen and will be afraid, those at the ends of the earth will tremble; they with draw near and come. Everyone will help his neighbour, and will say to his brother, 'Take courage!' They shall not be ashamed of their work, which the craftsman strengthens with the smith, and he who strikes with the hammer with him who beats with the mallet, then says of the soldering, 'It is straight', and he fastens it with nails so that it cannot be moved? But you Israel {He that sees God; He that prevails with God}, my servant Jacob {that supplants, undermines; the heel} in whom I am pleased, the seed of Abraham, me friend; you whom I brought near from the families of the earth, and chose from the kingdoms, and said to you, 'You are my servant, I am pleased with you and I will not cast you off'; fear not, for my Memra is your help, be not shattered, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will graps you with teh right hand of my truth. Behold, all the Gentiles who were stirred up against you shall be put to shame and confounded; the men of your judgment shall be as nothing and shall perish. You shall seek for the men of your contention, but you shall not find them; men who were stirred up to make war with you shall be as nothing at all. For I, the LORD your God, strengthen your right hand; it is I who who says to you, 'Fear not, my Memra is your help.' Fear not, tribe of the house of Jacob, families of the house of ISrael! My Memra is your help, says the LORD; your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel. Behold, I make you a strong threshing sledge, new, full of points; you shall kill the Gentiles and destroy them, and you shall make the kingdoms like chaff. You shall winnow them, and a wind shall carry them away, and his Memra, as the whirlwind the chaff, shall scatter them. And you shall rejoice in the Memra of the LORD; in the Holy One of Israel you shall glory. When the poor and the needy desire teaching as a thirsty person desires water and do not find it, and their spirit faints with affliction, I the LORD will accept their prayer, I the God of Israel will not forsake them. I will bring their exiles near from among the Gentiles and lead them in a correct way and open to them rivers on bare heights and springs in the midst of deserts; I will make the wilderness pools of water and the land of the thirsty place springs of water. I will put in the wilderness cedars, acacias, myrtles, olive trees; I will make great in the desert cypresses, planes, and pines together; that they may see and know, may set my fear in their heart and understand together that the might of the LORD has done this, the Holy One of Israel has created it. Set forth your cause, says the LORD; bring your fitting arguments, says the king of Jacob. Let them draw near, and tell us what is to happen to us. Tell us the former things, what they are, that we might consider them, and know their outcome; or announce to us the things about to come. Tell us what is to come at the end, that we may know whether there is worth in the idols you are serving, whether they are able to do good or do harm, that we may consider and judge together. Behold, you are nothing, and your works are naught; an abomination is that with which you are pleased among yourselves." [© 1990 The Order of Saint Benedict Aramaic Targum of Isaiah 41:1-24; See also Isaiah 55:1-13] Last Sunday there was a remarkable news program which addressed the issues of child sexual abuse and multiple wives perpetuated by David Koresh as his acts justifiying his claim to 7th day Sabbath keeping belief and the impetus for the Waco massacre. The little weatherboard church on an isolated Texan wind swept prairie which is attended by no more than a dozen people, is all that remains of the incident some 10 years on. I'm surprised that X98 as a self-professed Muslim, isn't aware of the superiority of the Hebrews {ie. King David's} Solar/Lunar calendaring system with its 22 consonents (rather than the Arabic script of 28) within its taxonomy as cosmological, epistemological, ontological and Christological model. Modernity as a Mathematical Kabbalistic Metaphysical & Regulative Philosophical Autonomous Model of Time, Information & Reason: #11 (#2/#37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Adminstration of Government ) -- Telos (6,000) = Arch (0) + c² Synchronisation: #41 Mem = Thursday, 13 September, 2001 [#41 (#41/#41 - Playing with Reversal)] n(n² + 1)/2 = #sum Magic squares for series 3x3 {=9, #123}, 5x5 {=25, #205}, 7x7 {=49, #287} and 9x9 {=81, #369} days. Such that for #41 = 2(n * 41) + 41 from the 1st = #123, 2nd = #205, 3rd = #287 and 4th = #369 {9(9² + 1)/2 or [52W5D] or 9 x 41} Hebrew Calendar: {4 x 91 [30+30+31] Quarters (364 days)} + 5 CHAD? 354 day lunar year x 3 years = 1062 + 30 day month = 1092 days as 364 day solar year x 3 = 1092 days 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 days {Total Solar eclipse 11 Aug, 1999} Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year/New Moon) 1 Tishri 5760 = 11-12 Sept, 1999 with Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = 20 Sept, 1999 + {6,000 years as Saturday 1st January, 2000 + Topical Year/Day Solar eclipse 25 December, 2000 + 6 days ...} + Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year/New Moon) {PE (#80) - End of Year: 29 Elul 5761} Mon 17 Sept, 2001 + CHAD: #1 {TSADE (#90) - 1st Rosh Hashanah} Tues 18 Sept, 2001/ 1 Tishri, 5762; #2 {QOPH (#100) - 2nd Rosh Hashanah} Wed 19 Sept, 2001/ 2 Tishri, 5762; #3 {RESH (#200)}; #4 {SHIN (#300); #5 {TAU (#400)} with Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = September 27, 2001 = {385 days} 29 Sept, 2000 + {353 days} 17 Sept, 2001 + {354 days} 6 Sept, 2002 = 1092 days OR {353 days} 17 Sept, 2001 + {354 days} 6 Sept, 2002 + {385 days} 26 Sept, 2003) = 1092 days 294 [6J] years is an 'oth cycle [ie. Law @ Sinai in [50J] + 12 x [6J] + [3W1D] = 6,000 years] which appears central to its realignment: 20 x [6J] + 120 = 6,000 yrs 12 x [10J] + 120 = 6,000 yrs 8 x [15J] + 120 = 6,000 yrs 4. Law @ Sinai [50J] - 1550BCE ... 5. Pythagoras' Tetragrammation of YHWH & Hebrew's return from Babylonian Exile [72J] {3(3² + 1)/2=[2W1D]} - 457BCE ... 6. Jesus of Nazareth in 72J71W5D as midst 69th Week of [10J] = 490 years - 30CE ... 7. Telos [122J3W1D] - 6,000 years ... {9(9² + 1)/2=[52W5D]} Given the factual, rational and regulative mathematical basis to the 7th-day Sabbatarian Hebrew/Christian religious belief of both the Torah and the New Testament, "X98" claim to be speaking "IN THE NAME OF ALLAH MOST GRACIOUS. MOST MERCIFUL" is delusional, a lie and blasphemy--The Troll should cease posting SPAM to alt.religion.christian.adventist & aus.religion.christian newsgroups. 1) "X98" appears to be a Muslim Religious Extremist {'One problem though... I am a Muslim. Now if you knew the basics of Islam, then you would know that I walk with the Torah in my left hand, the Gospel in my right, and the Quran in the heart'}. 2) They appear to be continually misappropriating and deploying the Waco, Texas United States of America massacre experience of an off-shoot Seventh-day {7th day Sabbatarian} Adventist, community of faith for the promulgation of their own political and fascist religious ideology as astrological hymeneal occultism. 3) As you can see from the following dialog concerning the rational and regulative philosophic first principles which pervade our modern understanding of the Torah with its Sabbatarian view, there is little or no truth content in their anti-Semitism as they have ignored Yom Kippur-Day of Atonement as the yearly Sabbath highpoint of the Jews and against whom they claim to possess greater truth. 4) A complaint concerning their promulgation of SPAM on alt.religion.christian.adventist as unsound, unreasoned and religious fascist worldview comprising Muslim Religious Extremist Views has been forwarded to their ISP. 5) It is perhaps for this reason, they feel the need to extend their malefience further. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "X98" wrote in message news:CZYpa.38948$ey1.3545776@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... In the name of the Mid Night Sun I am wounded BUT not dead...Yet On April 19, 2003, I was at the gate of Mt.Carmel protesting the government built whore house known as the new Davidian church. I was joined by a fellow student from McLennan Community College and a neighbor of Mt.Carmel Center. Those posing as Davidians attacked the gate at Mt.Carmel, they cursed me, my mother, father and children in attempt to engage me in a fight. I refused, so they spit on me and through lit cigarettes, but stayed a safe distance within the gate; therefore, no ambulance transport was necessary for them. They are cowards of words and no action. All of this was done as a setup, because as they were attacking as only cowards can do They then called the police and reported that "I" was threatening them. By the time the police arrived, the impostors had all disappeared. The police were intent on arresting me, but because of the testimony of my friends the police had no legal right to proceed. They asked me were I wanted to go and I told them nowhere, because I was right where I wanted to be. I made it quite clear that I was going to stay right there until I was finished my protest and if they wanted me to stop they would have to make a false arrest. But because of my witnesses, the imposters plan to have me arrested was foiled. The memorial in the church went according to plan. Very little media was present to cover the continuing murder of the Davidian message, which has been government plan at Mt.Carmel since the fire. This destruction is just what has been done to Jesus' message, peace be upon him. He told us to prepare for the Kingdom and to worship God. The Romans changed that to "Don't worry about the prophecies... worship Jesus, (a man) do a good deed and you will go to heaven. In David's case, he taught that a united force of Islam and Christianity would destroy Zionism ("the Jews who say they are Jews and are not" Rev. 2:9 3:9) This has been changed to say that David was a Zionist! This is a blaspheme!!! In truth the Davidians have long hated the Zionism, even before David Koresh showed them that this government is under their control and the Bush Crime Family would one day murder them and, as we have seen, this is just what they. I was seriously wounded, spiritually and emotionally, on the 19th, just as I am, dally, wounded by living here in Waco. The people of this town are the lowest of Human Filth I have ever met. There are churches on almost every corner filled with self-righteous war whores talking about their prince of peace while cry for the blood of Iraqi children. Ever night the local news ends with a sickening prayer from a local Zio/Christian begging their god for victory and support of the American Human Filth known as U.S, military and their leader George Bush. The one mosque in town is no better and even worse, because they should know better. They worship their money and physical safety rather than Allah... they fear the man Bush, so they argue with me that there is to be no politics spoken in the Mosque! They seem to think that what is important in Islam is which hand you should wipe your ass with rather than which hand you should be use to wipe out the oppressors. There is also a "Christian organization here that "helps" the poor called "Mission Waco." It is staffed by graduate students of Baylor University. I have studied with these pork eating Bible students for the last two years. At the start of this WAR, I offered them copies of The Holy Quran. To this date not one of them have accepted the offer. Not surprising because this is a government church setup in response of the Waco Holocaust in 1993. I think their primary reason for not wanting to read the Quran is because it tells the truth about the crucifixion of Jesus. *He was not Crucified... nor was he killed!* Those who believe this perverted message of Christ, often cry about him being on the cross and that they would gladly take his place, but in truth they are liars. They want him on the cross... they NEED him on the cross... otherwise they have to take responsibility for their own actions. This is something Americans, in general, never seem to want to do. They want most of all to call God, may He forever be praised and Jesus, peace be upon him, liars, by saying there is to be NO JUDGMENT; because Jesus died for our sins and therefore, we are already saved! Those who hold this perverted religion are the very ones who support Zionism, i.e., the WHORE MOTHER who gave birth to this WAR.... Some prince of peace they are following... huh? Truly, I walk the land of the dead. In the past few days I have been overwhelmed by this darkness in contemplation of my next steps. Should I continue to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous liars and deceivers only succumb to my self-destructive capacities or should I, this day, pick up arms against this evil and thereby by add to the force which will destroy it forever? As of this moment, I will write, fighting tooth and nail until the return of the Mahdi and Jesus, May Allah speed their return. As Zapata, one of the greatest men in western history, once said: "It is better that a man should die on his feet than live on his knees." Warriors and cowards often get knocked to their knees... the difference is the Warriors gets back up! Break the bonds of ignorance! and know that the *Bush Crime Family* planned the murder of the Davidian children. which included the burning of the church on the fiftieth anniversary of the burning of the Warsaw Ghetto! Don't be confused by the Clinton puppet presidency, he was in power only three weeks before the attack on the Mt.Carmel church on the Sunday morning of February 28, 1993. The orders to murder women and children were not Clinton's, he simply carried them out. Biblically Bush is the King of the North and he will be destroyed by Jesus and Koresh/Quraysh, who comes from Iran. This word is Bond X98 ************************************ In The Name of Allah Most Gracious, Most Merciful Peace and Blessing upon those who read and consider, Fear Allah, because... The great and dreadful day of the wrath of the Lamb has come and who shall be able to stand? Howl because... "The New Davidian Church, in Waco, was founded on the Sabbath! What an ABOMINATION! Pray God that... You might consider http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/doc/x98_rev.html You might look past the messenger: http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/page/b_kce.html You might see, the three upside-down crosses in the church's architecture signifying the theology of those who built it. Death to Father Death to The Holy Ghost Death to The Holy Sons of Light. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waco_murders/files/NewFrontwindow.gif NPR February 28, 2003 http://www.kwbu.org/stream/audio.php?id=0 From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Mon Apr 28 11:26:41 2003 Although I did get a different response when I emailed Microsoft.com for Product Information Request: From: "Dolf Boek" To: Microsoft Info Subject: Microsoft's Visual Archiver Date: Sunday, 12 January 2003 8:15 AM Dear Bill, I recently saw an interesting device on the news about your latest Gizmo in Las Vegas gizmo show. Of particular interest was the visual archiver. Is it just me, but when other people see the evening news, is it? The day's CHAD PACK Headliners - STORY 1 {Nature contains Nature} - STORY 2 {Nature rejoices in its Nature} - STORY 3 {Nature surmounts Nature} - STORY 4 {Nature amended in its Nature} - STORY 5 {Act of Nature} - STORY 6 {Form of Nature} - STORY 7 {Engendering Nature} - STORY 8 {Transform Nature} [-STORY 9 {Autonomous Nature} -STORY 10 {Totality of Nature}] [BEGIN TRANSCRIPT QUOTE] Open Log - 1420 hours Saturday, 11 January, 2003 #1 - Microsoft's Visual Archiver Gizmo - RTCProd#001-744-720 Sunday, 12 January 2003 9:04 AM #2 - Cosmic Tennis Anyone? - RTCProd#001-749-671 Monday, 13 January 2003 10:20 AM #3 - Chemist Amazes Customers - RTCProd#001-777-868 Wednesday, 15 January, 2003 (? Info lost) #4 - Telos (Australia Day 26 January, 2003) - RTCProd#001-862-932 Sunday, 26 January 2003 10:29 PM #5 - Letters Patent/Constitution (Australia Day 26 January, 2003) - RTCProd#001-862-936 Sunday, 26 January 2003 10:29 PM [END TRANSCRIPT QUOTE] I had previously attended the Victoria State Library and had a discussion with a male member of staff in the newspaper microfiche area of the Swanston Street library about a vMeme/Moment Kabbalistic Metaphysical & Regulative Autonomous Philosophical {realtime} model I had developed. And its compatibility with the Origins and Theory of Number and their use within Alexandria {and possibly the library} as Milisian Ordinals which is more commonly known as the Dewey Decimal System. I just now attempted to provide this advice via the on-line ask the librarian, but unfortunately they resorted to prejudice and terminated the dialog without using their intellect: [BEGIN DIALOG QUOTE] Have you thought of resolving your Melbourne State Library's Wages Claim with technological innovation? Enclosed is a calendar version of the solar/lunar based vMeme/Moment Kabbalistic Metaphysical & Regulative Philosophical Autonomous model of Time, Information & Reason: #11 (#2/#37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Administration of Government ) -- Telos (6,000) = Arch (0) + c² Synchronisation: #41 Mem = Thursday, 13 September, 2001 [#41 (#41/#41 - Playing with Reversal)] A librarian will be with you in about a minute. If you have provided an email address you will receive a complete transcript of this session listing all Internet addresses suggested. [Librarian-NLA - A librarian has joined the session.] Librarian-NLA: Your behaviour is not appropriate. I am terminating the session now. Librarian-NLA: note to staff: INAPPROPRIAT [Librarian-NLA - user has closed this session] [END QUOTE] Obviously they weren't conversant with the subject of Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles which underpin the Letters Patent to Australia's Constitution. As this is a cosmological, epistemological and ontological model which underpins the letter patent to the Australian Constitution, I thought it prudent to forward it to them so that they may innovate upon the Dewey Decimal System {ie. 001=Prophecy {} 111=Time {} 222=Torah {} 523=Cosmos {1+2+3 = #6 /1+2+3+4 = #10} --------- 857 }, obtain a significant advance in information retrieval, and succeed in the Victorian Librarian's present wage case. You can only but try! - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed Apr 30 12:08:44 2003 One last comment, Gladys, Time has elapsed on your un-Constitutional factitious, vexacious and irrational characterisations of my religious belief and its relationship to other sovereign characteristics of my being--'Gender and Sexuality Identity.' If the Australian Constitution's religious laws viz Section 116 came into effect to protect 7th day Sabbath keeping Christians from instances of psychological cruelty directed by Sunday sacred, hymenealism as representative of Australia's Christianity--William and Henry Firth had been sentenced to the stocks in Paramatta on 22 April 1894. They had been prosecuted by the New South Wales Council of Churches for working on Sunday. Then you may consider that Seventh-day {ie Saturday as Malkuth - the dwelling of God within Creation} Adventism, regard the Torah and the Prophets as exegesis upon the metaphysical notion of the 10 Commandments and the Testimony given to them by Jesus of Nazareth--is supported by a mathematical derived universal ethical and religious values statement that is entirely compatible with the Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles of Modernity {a liberal theological tendency in Protestantism which is opposed to fundamentalism and a Roman Catholic movement which interpreted the teaching of the church in light of the philosophy and science of the late 19th and early 20th centuries; condemned by Pope Pius in 1907} which underpin the Letters Patent to Australia's Constitution of 1901. Queen Victoria's daughter, Princess Victoria (d. 5 August, 1901 at the Palace of Kronberg) recalls the atmosphere of German nationalism, militarism and hatred of foreigners as being steeped in an antiquated treatment of women: "'Do more to enhance the role of women', she urged Crown Prince Frederich Wilhelm, her complicated, mild-natured husband, who was on the brink of power in September 1862, when his father, Kaiser Wilhelm I, seemed determined to abdicate. It was she who persuaded her husband to attend--in full dress uniform--a service at the Berlin synagogue to distance themselves from anti-Semitism. Princess Victoria was furious about the Kaiser's chancellor, Otto von Bismarck. "In describing Bismarck's autocratic ways, in a letter to her mother, Queen Victoria in 1875, she said: 'His views of the press are medieval. In general he is a medieval person for whom the true theories of freedom and modern government are like Hebrew.'" [Roger Boyes writing from Berlin, Courtesy: The Australian 8 August, 2001, portions courtesy The Times] A Viennese psychologist, Wilfred Daim, reflecting on the political change and gathering pace of militarisation of the period following, has claimed that a certain Jorg Lanz Von Liebenfels (1874-1954) whom Hitler met in 1909 and is suggested, was the originator of many of his ideas, themself sourced from Catholic derived mysticism. Traditionally these are derived from the Greek/Egyptian sophistic sciences {sarkikos sophia = Malakos where Mala means very; most in the greatest degree or particularly:-chiefly, most of all, especially} by a numerological (cosmism as ra=1) metathesis {metaschematizo-{transform, of stars and planets, changing of constellations; cf: Satan & his ministers are transformed into angels-aggelos of light-phos; For example the Angelic influence Nelchael [101°-105° /Jul 2-6 /Cancer /Water /[#33 (#36/#23 - The Constancy of Guiding Concepts; cf: Tuesday 18 September, 2001 being Rosh Hashanah [#39 (#39/#73 - Employing Deeming - to form or have an opinion, judge, think, regard)] occurred on Jewish/Hebrew Calendar 1 Tishri , 5762 commencing the 10 days of Atonement culminating with Yom Kippur [#25 (#33/#33 - Achievable Goals)] on Thursday 27 September, 2001] 50+30+20 = 100 (#6) or 580 (#6) Latin: Praemium Alt: Raahel {Vision of God}] was similarly thought to: 1. PROTECT AGAINST UNFAVOURABLE SPIRITS, AGAINST SLANDERERS; 2. MATHEMATICS; 3. GEOMETRY; 4. Sith/Since}. It is effectively a transposition upon the Hebrew Oracles of Yahweh, known as the 10 Commandments as an opinion on the Soul--Because it was believed to consist of Mind, Science, Opinion and Sense. [cf: Romans 8:20-21; Ephesians 4:17-24; 2Peter 2:18-22] Liebenfels was a renegade Cistercian monk who was excommunicated for being homosexual. As a socio-biological crank of the first order, he founded in 1900, his own brotherhood--an 'Order of the New Templars', using the Swastika as his sign. Beyond founding an anti-Semitic journal called Ostara {Teutonic god of beauty} in 1905, he authored a hermetically derived, philosophical book on evolutionary human development "...with a somewhat long-winded title, 'Theozoologie, or the account of the apes of Sodom {their secret; their cement} and the divine election--an introduction into the earliest and the most modern world philosophy and a justification for the orders of princes and the aristocracy', which appeared in 1904." By 1918, Liebenfels mystical proposal of "a Law of Life [...] and for the preservation of the race" earned him a reputation as a race-hygienist. 'Ariosophy' was largely a fusion of race-based Volkish thinking {'hymeneal mysticism/occultism, volkisch nationalism, racism, and antisemitism'} with the Theosophical idea that "Evolution is the law of Life, Number is the law of the Universe and Unity is the law of God", popularized by Helena Blavatsky and her followers. Theosophy itself included a good deal of racial thinking--viz. Blavatsky's notion of the 'five root races' of mankind. From such work we learn that the troubles of humanity are due to the long-standing miscegenation of the god-men with the beast-men. Naturally the Aryans were closest in form to the god-men of the past. Liebenfels extended this analysis to 'frequently obscene and always radical' interpretations of Scripture, ending with moral prescriptions for racial hygiene which echoed that of the SS thirty years later and in 1934, a year after Hitler came to power, Lanz wrote that the Order of the New Templars was the "first manifestation of the [Nazi] Movement, which now, in accordance with the law of God, is most powerful in history and unrestrainedly sweeping over the world." Doubtlessly the evolutionary development of phrenological and philosophical thinking [cf: Dr. Ruddock's 1926 Vitalogy Cure for Impotency] led to references on homosexuality entering into the vocabulary of the Hebrew/Christian Scriptures within the latter part of the 20th century: "And as Isaiah said-proereo before-proereo {to say already, predict:-foretell, say (speak, tell) before}: 'Unless-'ei-me' the LORD-kurios of Saboath {Lord of Hosts, Forces & Authority over Chaos} had left-egkataleipo {to leave behind in some place, that is, (in a good sense) let remain over, or (in a bad one) to desert:-forsake, leave} us a seed-sperma {somethng sown, that is, seed including the male 'sperm'; by implication offspring; specifically a remnant; figuratively as if kept over for planting:-issue, seed}, we would have become-ginomai {generate, come into being, to marry cf: [Romans 7:16]} like Sodom {their secret; their cement}, and we would have been made-homoioo {to assimilate, that is, compare; passively to become similar:-be make like, in the likeness, resemble} like Gomorrah {rebellious {Mary} people}." [Romans 9:22-29] The Church then, as the invisible brotherhood, has in the furtherance of its own social and political agenda as Divine Work, become the cultural custodians of 'Theozoologie': "...Like natural-phusikos brutish-alogos [Jude 1:11] beasts-zoon made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand-agnoeo (through lack of information, intelligence and disinclination), and will utterly perish in their own corruption." [2 Peter 2:12] This rationale is readily observed in its continuing, present day antagonism directed towards homosexuals and consideration of AIDS as Divine retribution. But such a view, which is ostensibly religious superstition-'deisidaimonia' {cf: kakodaimonia-unhappiness, misfortune, possession by an evil spirit, to be tormented by an evil genius}, remains incompatible to Jesus of Nazareth's gospel-euaggelion of the kingdom-basileia pronouncements that were accompanied by healing-therapeuo {to wait upon menially, that is, (figuratively) to adore (God), or (specifically) to relieve (of disease-MALAKIA)} liberation for all-pas sick-echo-kakos people. There is a lack of moral ground and no accountability to history by which Christians now use the same epithets as the Fascists of 20th Century Europe and yet claim their conduct is all the more Christian. The Church's quest for a final solution, as miso-genic prejudice directed against homosexuals as a quotient of the population, is eagerly pursued under the veneer of compassion for those afflicted by "diseases-nosos and torments-bananos, and those-ho which were possessed-daimonizomai {to be deified; to be exercised by a daemon:-have a (be vexed with, be possessed with) devil (-s)} with devils-daimonizomai {nizomai: generally, purge, cleanse, washed off; Hence: "allos kat' allên daimonizetai tuchên" each one has his own fate appointed}, and those which were lunatic-seleniazomai {to be moon struck i.e. epileptic, to be sublunar, i.e. subject to change and decay, that is, crazy:-be lunatic}" [cf: Matthew 4:23-24; Matthew 9:35-38] Hitler saw in Protestantism, the seat and opportunity for a neo-pagan Christian renaissance. Whilst assisted ably by the adoption of the Jewish/Greek Kabbalah, it nevertheless remained the purveyor and defender of all that was German: "Protestantism will always stand up for the advancement of all Germanism as such, as long as matters of inner purity or national depending ('Nationale Vertiefung') as well as German freedom are involved, since all these things have a firm foundation in its own being; but it combats with the greatest hostility any attempt to rescue the nation from the embrace of its most mortal enemy, since its attitude towards the Jews just happens to be more or less dogmatically established. Yet here we are facing the question without whose solution all other attempts as a German reawakening or resurrection are and remain absolutely senseless and impossible." [Adolf Hitler, Mien Kampf, © 1943 Houghton Mifflin & Co, p 103] It seems appropriate given the mythical, irrational and factitious non-biblical basis to Catholic religious dogma, that whenever instances of human, religious and unConstitutional persecution occurs as intrusions & violations of 'human gender and sexuality Identity' {be it by the Road Traffic Authority, your local hospital, or the police as examples which presently occur in Australia}, that steps are taken to take such complaints, the claims of the religious participant and the Institution before a court of civil law, so that such religious and treasonable malefactors may be publicly forced to recognise the sovereignty of our own constitution above the factitious claims of Roman religious dogma and their ecclesiatical law of traditions and their obligations to give compliance to it. The Catholic news service ZENIT on 18 & 20 April, 2003 makes the following insubstantial claim of homosexuality with reference to the Roman Catholic Church's laws of tradition {a constructed, artificial and contrived moral world view} rather than the 7th-day Sabbath based universal law of the Torah given by YAHWEH in the Old Testament, from whence the Greeks borrowed their philosophy and ethics and dutifully observed by the New Testament era Hebrew/Christians until their exterminatation by collaboration between apostate Jews and succesive Roman Emperors: "The Catholic Medical Association is dedicated to upholding the principles of the Catholic Faith as related to the practice of medicine and to promoting Catholic medical ethics to the medical profession, including mental health professionals, the clergy, and the general public. No issue has raised more concern in the past decade than that of homosexuality and therefore the CMA offers the following summary and review of the status of the question. This summary relies extensively on the conclusions of various studies and points out the consistency of the teachings of the Church with these studies. It is hoped that this review will also serve as an educational and reference tool for Catholic clergy, physicians, mental health professionals, educators, parents and the general public. CMA supports the teachings of the Catholic Church as laid out in the revised version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in particular the teachings on sexuality: "All the baptized are called to chastity" (CCC, no. 2348); "Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence" (CCC, no. 2349); "tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. ... Under no circumstance can they be approved" (CCC, no. 2333)." [Ref http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=34443 ] Gladys, If a claim to spiritual life starts with a still birth {'I was christened in a Roman Catholic church' [Gladys]}--It isn't! "Therefore, leaving-aphiemi the discussion-logos of the elementary principles-arche of Christ-Christos, let us go-phero on to perfection-teleiotes, not laying-kataballo again-palin the foundation-themelios of repentance-metanoia from dead-nekros works-ergon and of faith-pistis towards-epi God-theos, of the doctrine-didache of baptisms-baptismos, of laying-epithesis [Pythagorean Name for Two] on-epithesis of hands-cheir [In Greek thuergy the name for spiritual powers], of resurrection-anastasis from the dead-nekros, and of eternal-aionios judgment-krima. And this-touto we will do-poieo if-ean God-theos permits-epitrepo. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessings from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned." [Hebrews 6:1-12] Gladys, My last response to that issue was on 21 April, 2003. 9 elapsed days is a bit long to be making any valid contribution to online discussion--but thanks for your thoughts! The issue of homosexuality within the Bible is a manufactured morality issue imposed by nominal, anti-nomian or those who in their Sunday sacredness, misrepresent themselves in their hymeneal mystical values as Christian such as you--John Reuchlin's (1455-1522 CE) cosmological, epistemological, ontological and Christological model as depiction of Catholic Mysticism suggests that no Christian community of faith is free from his theological error and fraudulent claim to Christian belief--By it the Protestant Reformation is rendered ineffectual--an impious fraud! This accords with one of the only known statements from the pen of Ellen G. White, founding illuminato of the Seventh-day Adventist Church which indicates why she might be inclined to lose confidence in the church: "I was confirmed in all I had stated in Minneapolis, that a reformation must go through the churches. Reforms must be made, for spiritual weakness and blindness were upon the people who had been blessed with great light and precious opportunities and privileges. As reformers they had come out of the denominational churches, but they now act a part similar to that which the churches acted. We hoped that there would not be the necessity for another coming out. While we will endeavor to keep the 'unity of the Spirit' in the bonds of peace, we will not with pen or voice cease to protest against bigotry." [Ellen G. White, 'Last Day Events', God's Last Day Church, EGW 1888 Materials Manuscript 356, 357 (1889) {LDE 48.1} cf: 11MR, 229; & 16MR 217] The question I have concerns taxonomy and chronological dependence {ie. "you shall rejoice at the end time when you find the essence of our words to be true"}given to the resolution of seemingly a religious/political issue {ie. #11 (#2/#37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Administration of Government} as a problem that is conveyed by the metaphysical notion of "so keep you away from evil thoughts and the counsel of Belial {wicked, worthless}"--Which is equally and foundationally a Christian and Jewish Torah theological issue: "You shall walk after the Memra of the Lord your God and fear before him, and keep his precepts and obey the voice of his Memra, and serve before him with a perfect heart and hold fast to the instruction of his law. And that false prophet or dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he spoke lying words before the Lord your God who brought you redeemed from the land of Egypt and who redeemed out from the house of bondage of slaves, leading you astray from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall remove evildoers from among you. If your brother, the sons of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your companion, your friend who is dear to you as your own soul, should lead you astray in secret, saying: 'Let us go, now and serve other idols,' which neither you nor you fathers have known, some of the idols of the peoples who are round about you, whether they be near to you or far removed from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall find not pleasure in him nor listen to his words; your eyes shall not pity him, and you shall not pity him nor shall you concel him; but you shall surely kill him; your hands shall be the first to have power over him to kill him, and afterward the hands of all the people. You shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to lead you astray from following the Memra of the Lord your God who brought you redeemed our of the land of Egypt, from the house of the bondage of slaves. And all Israel {He that sees God; He that prevails with God} shall hear and fear, and shall never again do an evil deed like this among you. If you hear in one of your cities, which the Lord your God gives you to dwell there, saying 'Men, the sons of evil counsels-BELIAL, have gone forth from among you and have led astray the inhabitants of their cities, saying 'Let us go and serve before other idols,' which ou have not known, you shall seek and make inquiry and ask diligently; and if in truth the thing is established, that this abomination has been done among you..." [© 1997 The Order of Saint Benedict, circa 1496 Aramaic Targum of Neofiti 1: Deuteronomy 13:5-15] "O Corithinians {which is satisfied; ornament; beauty}! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open. You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections. Now in return for the sae (I speak as to children), you also be open. Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial {wicked, worthless}? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'And walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be my people.' [Leviticus 26:12; Jeremiah 32:38; Ezekiel 37:27] Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, And you shall be my sons and daughters, says the LORD {ie. YAHWEH} Almighty." [© 1982 Nelson Thomas New King Lames, 2 Corinthians 6:11-18]{ IMPORTANT NOTE: If this relates to an exegesis of Jewish Torah as it contextually relates to Philo of Alexandria's (c. 20 BCE to 50 CE) 'On The Embassy to Gaius Julius Caesar Germanicus' ("Caligula") Emperor of Rome, 37-41 CE Then the metaphysical issue may well be conveyed by the Scroll fragment 11Q13 - 11QMelchizedek gives some clues as to the composition of the 'chiefs of the princes of the wonderful priesthoods of Melchizedek' as relating to the 'seven priesthoods of his inner sanctum' as 'the called ones of the height of heights, seven wonderful territories, in the regulations of his sanctuaries'. The minuscule textual remnants, suggests its understanding is notionally drawn from songs and psalms [Psalms 82:1-2; 7:8-9; cf 45:1-17 - Glories of the Messiah and his bride] composed by King David under prophetic influence. As Wisdom contemplations on the transcendent nature and character of God {ie. For example of taxonomical and contextual relationship to 'Lord on High' as Shang Ti in 'THE WAY (TAO) OF VIRTUE (TE)' by Chinese Wisdom Philosopher Lao Tzu (b. 604 BCE), a contemporary of Confucius (circa 551-479 BCE) }, this genre of literature is inherently metaphysical in character and may therefore have a correspondence to Philo of Alexandria's (20 BCE-50 AD) metaphysical view of the Decalogue as rather resembling the 'Heads of Laws', "...Of which in the first place one must at once admire the number, inasmuch as they are completed in the perfect number of the decade, which contains every variety of number ...And it is in reference to this fact that the first philosophers appear to me to have affixed the names to things which they have given them. For they were wise men, and therefore they very speciously called the number ten the decade (teµn dekada), as being that which received every thing (hoµsanei dechada ousan), from receiving (tou dechesthai) and containing every kind of number, and ratio connected with number, and every proportion, and harmony, and symphony." [Philo, Decalogue 18-23] THEN THE FLOW ON/RIPPLE EFFECT IS AS FOLLLOWS: William Wynn Westcott (circa 1887-1893) also makes the statement as Supreme Magus of the Rosicrucian Society, where he specifically connects this same Chaldean interpretation given to the Hebrew language taxonomy sequence with the origins of the English languages (and for that matter the Australian language viz The Macquarie Dictionary © 1981 The Macquarie University) usage of VOWELS in the form 'I E O U A' {"the Jahouvahou as the form from which he derived the English word Jehovah by replacing the four mystic Hebrew letters {ie. Tetragrammation of 'YHWH'} by the five vowels of our modern language." [The Kabbalah of the Golden Dawn -- Studies Series 16 © 1997 Darcy Kuntz]} The 21 Consonants {viz 22 Hebrew letters + Theory of Number} of the English language therefore serving as a linch pin as it were, for our sense of autonomy conveyed by the regulative philosophic principles underpinning the Letters Patent of the Australian Constitution of 1901, and therefore the duty of every Australian. The question posed here is, that given the following Chronological & Heretical Theological Error in Christology, namely Theologian John Reuchlin's (1455-1522 CE) depiction of Catholic Mysticism and its identical axiomatic use of the same Chaldean Astrological taxonomical interpretation of the Hebrew/Greek Kabbalah, what is its consequence upon the continuation of the cult of Mithra and pretension to Christianity, otherwise known as the Roman Catholic Church? [Romans 11:15-23] Reuchlin considered and promulgated widely the view that the period of grace and redemption {HEALTH} by which God revealed himself through five letters, namely the same Tetragrammation Yod, He, Vav, He [72J] interpretation of the Divine Name {"My people, children of Israel, let no one of you take the Name of the Lord his God in vain, because on the day of the great judgment the Lord will not acquit the one who shall take the Name of the Lord his God in vain." [© 1994 The Order of Saint Benedict, Targum Neofiti 1: Exodus 20:7]} popular amongst Jewish Hellenists such as Philo of Alexandria (c. 20 BCE to 50 CE) [cf: 1Timothy 1:18-20; 2Timothy 2:8-26], with the addition of the 21st Hebrew letter Shin, signifying the Logos, thus spelling Yehoshua or Jesus and giving rise to the Y2K Myth (viz. Law @ Sinai [50J] + Tetractys [72J] + 21 (21st Hebrew Letter as Shin/Sin) = Year 1999). } 4. Law @ Sinai [50J] - 1550BCE ... 5. Pythagoras' Tetragrammation of YHWH & Hebrew's return from Babylonian Exile [72J] {3(3² + 1)/2=[2W1D]} - 457BCE ... 6. Jesus of Nazareth in 72J71W5D as midst 69th Week of [10J] = 490 years - 30CE ... 7. Telos [122J3W1D] - 6,000 years ... {9(9² + 1)/2=[52W5D]} That it is the present belief of this author: 1092 days /369 = 2 x {9(9² + 1)/2=[52W5D]} + 354 lunar year corresponds to Telos (6,000) = Arch (0) + c² with Synchronisation: #41 Mem = Thursday, 13 September, 2001 [#41 (#41/#41 - Playing with Reversal): {Total Solar eclipse 11 Aug, 1999} Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year/New Moon) 1 Tishri 5760 = 11-12 Sept, 1999 with Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = 20 Sept, 1999 + {6,000 years as Saturday 1st January, 2000 + Topical Year/Day Solar eclipse 25 December, 2000 + 6 days ...} + Rosh Hashanah (Head of Year/New Moon) {PE (#80) - End of Year: 29 Elul 5761} Mon 17 Sept, 2001 + CHAD: #1 {TSADE (#90) - 1st Rosh Hashanah} Tues 18 Sept, 2001/ 1 Tishri, 5762; #2 {QOPH (#100) - 2nd Rosh Hashanah} Wed 19 Sept, 2001/ 2 Tishri, 5762; #3 {RESH (#200)}; #4 {SHIN (#300); #5 {TAU (#400)} with Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = September 27, 2001 = {385 days} 29 Sept, 2000 + {353 days} 17 Sept, 2001 + {354 days} 6 Sept, 2002 = 1092 days "Now, we have written to you some of the works of the Law, those which we determined would be beneficial for you and your people, because we have seen [that] you possess insight and knowledge of the Law. Understand all these things and beseech Him to set your counsel straight and so keep you away from evil thoughts and the counsel of Belial. Then you shall rejoice at the end time when you find the essence of our words to be true. And it will be reckoned to you as righteousness, in that you have done what is right and good before Him, to your own benefit and to that of Israel." [A Sectarian Manifesto, Section C.26-32] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0304291553.180cd3c9@posting.google.com... Dolf, I still can't work from your posting because of an internal error in my computer. The Jesus I write about is Jesus of Nazareth, named as the King of the Jews at His crucifixion by Roman soldiers, but agreed to by those Jews who acted according to the wishes of the Pharisees. I do not support now, nor did I support the actions against modern Jews in Europe during World War II. The Jesus I write about is the person of whom His disciple, Peter, said that He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. I was christened in a Roman Catholic church, but my parents moved from its membership when my maternal grandmother was called " a heathen" after she was cremated in the 1930's. It wasn't the priest's fault - he was following the teaching given to him. I have been 'a spiritual butterfly' through a number of Protestant (evangelical) denominations by circumstances rather than by choice. I am now an non-denominational Christian with a desire that there can be unity amongst Christians as the Christian faith is presented using more modern means of reaching others, while maintaining the traditional means that older Christians find helpful. I support inter-denominational ministries that work with a large number of denominations. Biblically, homosexuality was opposed. It was contrary to the will of God that humans created by Him were to procreate and populate the world. It may have even been realised in Biblical times that homosexual practices generated more disease. Biblically, there are two states: - celibacy outside marriage, fidelity within it. God has made humans with brains able to control sexual impulses rather that the intuitive, instinctive reactions of animals. As the Sexual Revolution, (as it was called) and Evolution were both promoted almost simultaneously from the early 1960's I just wonder if the unproven origins of humans in the lower animals were used to give public credibility to sexual practices other than those above. As I have said in another posting research needs to be done about causes and means found for recovery. It is not normal in the sense that norms are based on averages. The larger number of persons in any society are heterosexual. A number of younger people, in reaction to the explosion of sexual references in the media and other areas of life and as a sign of their Christian faith are actively witnessing they will wait until marriage for sexual activity. I am opposed to sexual teaching in schools as I believe that should be part of home and community education. The latter does involve the media which makes that situation complicated as there are those in that area of work who believe they have a right (which erroneously they call a responsibility) to impose their ideas on others. Gladys From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sat May 10 06:36:26 2003 "Pastor Winter JNAHC" I've extended my response to include several of your usual newsgroups. Law reform providing recognition of the individual's sovereign right to 'gender and sexuality identity' provided a significant opportunity for improving men's health care within Australia. I should point our on this Saturday being the 7th Sabbath day as the moral foundation to the Bible and the 10 Commandments, that although respect for the constitutional obligations and rights of others has been difficult for Sunday Sacred Hymeneal values driven Christianity to provide--who's claim to Torah Hebrew/Christianity of the Old and New Testament Scriptures post celebration of Jubliee2000 as a claim to the Christian faith, can be shown to be fraudulent. The recognition that there is a failure of human belief systems which call themselves Christian, is not to deny the existence of God, but deny that they in life represent the existence of God--The infatuation with hymeneal values is a claim made of homosexuality with reference to the Church's laws of tradition {a constructed, artificial and contrived moral world view} rather than based on the 7th-day Sabbath as a Cosmological attribute of Nature and Wisdom by which Deity as Creator is particularised. A universal law of the Torah given by YAHWEH in the Old Testament, from whence the Greeks borrowed their philosophy and ethics and dutifully observed by the New Testament era Hebrew/Christians until their exterminatation by collaboration between apostate Jews and succesive Roman Emperors such as Gaius Julius Caesar Germanicus' ("Caligula") Emperor of Rome, 37-41 CE. Perhaps when speaking of "delivering them to Satan" the Hebrew Torah Scholar, Greek Philosopher and Christian Apostle Paul was considering Philo of Alexandria's (c. 20 BCE to 50 CE) embassy to Caesar Caligula and his debauchry in democtratic governance viz. Alexander's two sons, Marcus {ie. Hymenaeus - "God of Nuptuals, Marriage"}and Tiberius {Good vision, the navel} Iuius Alexander {One who assist men}, Philo's nephews, were also in Roman affairs. Marcus {polite, shining} married Bernice {one that brings victory}, the daughter of Herod {son of a hero} Agrippa {one that causes great pain at his birth} [Acts 25:13, 23; 26:30]. "This charge I commit to you, son Timothy { honor of God; valued of God}, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, WHOM I DELIVERED TO SATAN THAT THEY MAY LEARN NOT TO BLASPHEME." [1 Timothy 1:18-20] According to the 3rd century CE Nag Hammadi Tractate titled 'The Exegesis on the Soul', the, 'Wise men of old gave the soul a feminine name.' Which, according to the exegesis given on [Ezekiel 16:23-26], is prostituted to 'the sons of Egypt', as those who are your neighbors, men of great flesh. Meaning thereby, that 'the domain of the flesh and the perceptible realm and the affairs of the earth, by which the soul has become defiled here, receiving bread from them, as well as wine, oil, clothing, and other external nonsense surrounding the body--these things she thinks she needs. But as to this prostitution the Apostles of the Saviour commanded [cf. Acts 15:20, 29; 21:25, 1 Thessalonians 4:3; 1 Corinthians 6:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1], Guard yourselves against it, purify yourselves from it, speaking not just of the prostitution of the body but especially of that of the soul. For this reason the apostles write to the churches of God, that such prostitution might not occur among us. Yet the greatest struggle has to do with the prostitution of the soul. From it arises the prostitution of the body as well. Therefore Paul, writing to the Corinthians [1 Corinthians 5:9-10], said, I wrote you in the letter, 'Do not associate with prostitutes,' not at all meaning the prostitutes of this world or the greedy or the thieves or the idolators, since then you would have to go out from the world. Here it is speaking spiritually--'For our struggle is not against flesh and blood--as he said in [Ephesians 6:12]--but against the world rulers of this darkness and the spirits of wickedness.'" [The Nag Hammadi Library, © 1988 E. J. Brill, Leiden, The Netherlands, The Exegesis of the Soul, 130:19-131:12] "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles-that a man has his father's wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, DELIVER SUCH A ONE TO SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-not even to eat with such a person." [1 Corinthians 5:1-11] The difficulty I have is "Pastor Winter JNAHC" claim and commentary on and to Christianity, bears no relationship or fidelity to the Hebrew Torah Scholar, Greek Philosopher and Christian Apostle Paul's theology: "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ..." - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "Pastor Winter JNAHC" wrote in message news:0ibmbvcog8pp76nsi5qhh4usinu39gv9tb@4ax.com... RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com (Ninure Saunders) spake thusly The modern AIDS epidemic was spawned in the bath houses of San Francisco. It is notable how many of trinity cults are making headlines for their sub-canine morals embracing the "G"ot "A"ids "Y"et crowd. See http://www.prerapture.org/Sewers.html Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination. Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, I wonder if I've been "exhaustive" enough here with this brief Bible study. It does seem from these verses that God does have feelings concerning certain matters.... I hope this helps... Pastor sTeve Winter -- Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio) Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6? From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sat May 10 08:07:36 2003 "reg-john" wrote in message news:DgVua.13$DP4.186@news-server.bigpond.net.au... ever wonder why belly button lint is always blue? DOLF NOTE: Speaking of blue, I should point out that part of my legal claim against Diane Sisley and Victoria Police involves a dual aspect of the resepective organitions failing to provide the necessary education and training to eliminate instances of workplace quassi-religious values based persecution and failing to adequating investigate complaints. It is a matter of entry within the Victoria Police Gazette that I changed my name circa 13 July, 1987 after the events of the Russell Street, Melbourne on 27 MARCH 1986. I believe that the motive for the bombing was a revenge attack for a legacy of unethical conduct by various sections of the Victoria Police. Having already changed my name in response to workplace psychological abuses, I believe that the past conduct of the Victoria Police towards the Police Lesbian and Gay Liaison Committee and the Gay And Lesbian Police Employees Network, together with my complaint of continued unethical treatment by the Victoria Police as public excoriation perpetuated by unreasoned suspension from the Victoria Police Ethical Standards Committee by then Assistant Commissioner Nancarrow--IS SUFFICIENT GROUNDS EXIST TO MAKE A HUMAN AND CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS CLAIM AGAINST BOTH ORGANISATIONS. A complaint was lodged before the Equal Opportunity & Human Rights Commission and subsequently dismissed by Diane Sisley. Historically I joined the Victoria Police as a police cadet [at 17 years of age and with an IQ then in the range of 130-135] and only left the organization after being subject to a regime of vilification by fellow sworn members and for which I changed my name. There is a specific instance where I met with former Chief Commissioner Mick Miller who appeared concerned that gay/lesbian issues were being t[h]rust upon him by approaches made by Tom Carter (the same individual as mentioned above) and Jamie Gardner (then a suspected paedophile who is now an Equal Opportunity Commissioner) by then Labor Governments Police Minister, Race Matthews as a criteria for acceptance of the police force's initial helicopter. I was requested by the then Chief Commissioner, who was troubled by representations made by the then Equal Opportunity Faye Miles (?), to provide a counter to these actions by providing covert advice on gay/lesbian community issues. This role subsequently ceased following loss of reputation due to slanderous characterizations made by Shrine Guard quasi-police member over issues of public place sexual activity & police assaults over which I was then concerned. Years later I revisited this as a member of the Police Lesbian/Gay Liaison Committee (PLGLC) and Gay & Lesbian Employees Network (GALPEN) in conjunction with the Victorian AIDS Council, by initiating a policy document on 'Policing Public Place (Beats) Sexual Behaviour' which was not adopted by the Victoria Police's ethical standards department. I was subject to dismissal from the Ethical Standards Consultative Committee on the grounds that I was pursuing a personal agenda-However my conduct was totally in keeping with the principles of Autonomy as espoused by the Letters Patent to the Constitution and to which my biopsychological and ethical theological model applies. There appears to be some collusional impropriety which was occurred in Diane Sisley's handling of this complaint. There was at the time a lack of adequate Equal Opportunity Education provided by the Equal Opportunity Commission and the Victoria Police and a suggestion by Graham Loison as the Victoria Police's Equal Opportunity Officer, that the meetings between the HREOC and Vic Police Command were contrived. SUMMARY OF EARLIER CORRESPONDENCE: Dear "H9" , If you have nothing to say, then given your apparent lack of education, resist the temptation to denigrate others by engaging in unreasoned hate-speech! I've extended the newsgroups to include aus.cars as your familiar participation. I'm not sure why I have to put up with this continual public life impugnity as religious values based persecution and Constitutional Rights violations by those who you'd otherwise expect to uphold Australian m{equity}a{inner?}t{act of nature}e{totality?} values { Australian Constitution's religious laws viz Section 116 came into effect in 1901 to protect 7th day Sabbath keeping Christians such as me, from similar instances of psychological cruelty directed by Sunday sacred, hymenealism as representative of Australia's Christianity--William and Henry Firth had been sentenced to the stocks in Paramatta on 22 April 1894. They had been prosecuted by the New South Wales Council of Churches for working on Sunday. } Suffice to say, in the likelihood of a human and Constitutional claim as legal action against AXA Global (Australia) Group Insurance, Victoria Police and the Chief Executive Officer of the Equal Opportunity & Human Rights Commission proceeds and your comments as a claim made against them, being submitted as evidence of public excoriation to a court of competent jurisdiction, I'll continue to make a public note of my outrage at your malicious characterisations and invite you in so making the remarks, to substantiate. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "H9" wrote in message news:3ebb5c54$0$1027$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... Got it right on the drivel bit. You need also to add incomprehensible rambings of a grade 1 lunatic suffering mental problems. From: "Phil Allison" Newsgroups: aus.legal Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 19:19:28 +1000 Message-ID: <3eb0e616$0$1026$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> "H9" wrote in message news:3eb0d95c$0$16282$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > Phil Allison wrote: > > ** LOL. Now you're getting all upset cos we all know you're wrong, and > the more you say, the deeper the pile of shit you're creating is getting!!! > LOL!!!! ** You are not JUST a fuckwit H9 - you are a champion arsehole too. Go back to your porn sites. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sat May 10 09:13:08 2003 Having subsequently received a response to my Freedom of Information Request from the Human Services Department, concerning Tom Carter's involvement in investigating factitious, vexatious, and ignorant religious values based letter of complaint from a friend of 16 years, of which my Doctors failed to disclose, although being the recipient of such communication. Who was then acting irresponsibly and with financial self-interest under the auspices of Power of Attorney & Medical Power of Attorney-alleging on my part, mental health impairment and sexual impropriety of a fantastical and reckless nature. I also believe, Tom Carter's past unethical political activity and approaches to his local political-party member, Race Matthews, had a deleterious bearing on the autonomy and rights of gay men and lesbians, such as myself who were then sworn members employed by the Victoria Police--sufficient grounds exist to make a claim of human and constitutional rights violations against the individuals concerned. - dolf "reg-john" wrote in message news:DgVua.13$DP4.186@news-server.bigpond.net.au... ever wonder why belly button lint is always blue? DOLF NOTE: Speaking of blue, I should point out that part of my legal claim against Diane Sisley and Victoria Police involves a dual aspect of the respective organisations failing to provide the necessary education and training to eliminate instances of workplace quassi-religious values based persecution and failing to adequating investigate complaints. It is a matter of entry within the Victoria Police Gazette that I changed my name circa 13 July, 1987 after the events of the Russell Street, Melbourne [bombing] on 27 March 1986. I believe that the motive for the bombing was a revenge attack for a legacy of unethical conduct by various sections of the Victoria Police. Having already changed my name in response to workplace psychological abuses, I believe that the past conduct of the Victoria Police towards the Police Lesbian and Gay Liaison Committee and the Gay And Lesbian Police Employees Network, together with my complaint of continued unethical treatment by the Victoria Police as public excoriation perpetuated by unreasoned suspension from the Victoria Police Ethical Standards Committee by then Assistant Commissioner Nancarrow--IS SUFFICIENT GROUNDS EXIST TO MAKE A HUMAN AND CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS CLAIM AGAINST BOTH ORGANISATIONS. A complaint was lodged before the Equal Opportunity & Human Rights Commission and subsequently dismissed by Diane Sisley. Historically I joined the Victoria Police as a police cadet [at 17 years of age and with an IQ then in the range of 130-135] and only left the organization after being subject to a regime of vilification by fellow sworn members and for which I changed my name. There is a specific instance where I met with former Chief Commissioner Mick Miller who appeared concerned that gay/lesbian issues were being t[h]rust upon him by approaches made by Tom Carter (the same individual as mentioned above) and Jamie Gardner (then a suspected paedophile who is now an Equal Opportunity Commissioner) by then Labor Governments Police Minister, Race Matthews as a criteria for acceptance of the police force's initial helicopter. I was requested by the then Chief Commissioner, who was troubled by representations made by the then Equal Opportunity Faye Miles (?), to provide a counter to these actions by providing covert advice on gay/lesbian community issues. This role subsequently ceased following loss of reputation due to slanderous characterizations made by Shrine Guard quasi-police member over issues of public place sexual activity & police assaults over which I was then concerned. Years later I revisited this as a member of the Police Lesbian/Gay Liaison Committee (PLGLC) and Gay & Lesbian Employees Network (GALPEN) in conjunction with the Victorian AIDS Council, by initiating a policy document on 'Policing Public Place (Beats) Sexual Behaviour' which was not adopted by the Victoria Police's ethical standards department. I was subject to dismissal from the Ethical Standards Consultative Committee on the grounds that I was pursuing a personal agenda-However my conduct was totally in keeping with the principles of Autonomy as espoused by the Letters Patent to the Constitution and to which my biopsychological and ethical theological model applies. There appears to be some collusional impropriety which was occurred in Diane Sisley's handling of this complaint. There was at the time a lack of adequate Equal Opportunity Education provided by the Equal Opportunity Commission and the Victoria Police and a suggestion by Graham Loison as the Victoria Police's Equal Opportunity Officer, that the meetings between the HREOC and Vic Police Command were contrived. SUMMARY OF EARLIER CORRESPONDENCE: Dear "H9" , If you have nothing to say, then given your apparent lack of education, resist the temptation to denigrate others by engaging in unreasoned hate-speech! I've extended the newsgroups to include aus.cars as your familiar participation. I'm not sure why I have to put up with this continual public life impugnity as religious values based persecution and Constitutional Rights violations by those who you'd otherwise expect to uphold Australian m{equity}a{inner?}t{act of nature}e{totality?} values { Australian Constitution's religious laws viz Section 116 came into effect in 1901 to protect 7th day Sabbath keeping Christians such as me, from similar instances of psychological cruelty directed by Sunday sacred, hymenealism as representative of Australia's Christianity--William and Henry Firth had been sentenced to the stocks in Paramatta on 22 April 1894. They had been prosecuted by the New South Wales Council of Churches for working on Sunday. } Suffice to say, in the likelihood of a human and Constitutional claim as legal action against AXA Global (Australia) Group Insurance, Victoria Police and the Chief Executive Officer of the Equal Opportunity & Human Rights Commission proceeds and your comments as a claim made against them, being submitted as evidence of public excoriation to a court of competent jurisdiction, I'll continue to make a public note of my outrage at your malicious characterisations and invite you in so making the remarks, to substantiate. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "H9" wrote in message news:3ebb5c54$0$1027$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... Got it right on the drivel bit. You need also to add incomprehensible rambings of a grade 1 lunatic suffering mental problems. From: "Phil Allison" Newsgroups: aus.legal Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 19:19:28 +1000 Message-ID: <3eb0e616$0$1026$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> "H9" wrote in message news:3eb0d95c$0$16282$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > Phil Allison wrote: > > ** LOL. Now you're getting all upset cos we all know you're wrong, and > the more you say, the deeper the pile of shit you're creating is getting!!! > LOL!!!! ** You are not JUST a fuckwit H9 - you are a champion arsehole too. Go back to your porn sites. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sat May 10 11:30:28 2003 I hope you don't mind my exercising my objection to your anonymous public comment and continuing to acknowledge them in the likelihood of legal proceedings of human and Constitutional Rights violations and religious persecution occurring against AXA Global (Australia) Insurance, the Victoria Police and the Chief Executive Officer of the Victorian Equal Opportunity & Human Rights Commission. - dolf ----- Original Message ----- From: "veritas" Newsgroups: aus.religion,aus.religion.christian,aus.religion.judaism,aus.politics,soc.cu lture.australian,aus.legal,aus.general,aus.cars Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 11:20 AM Subject: Re: Pro-homosexual ad on TV Wrote in message news:3EBC53CB.7030602@hotmail.com... You certainly don't - just piss-off HEADER Path: news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3EBC53CB.7030602@hotmail.com> From: veritas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: aus.religion,aus.religion.christian,aus.religion.judaism,aus.politics,soc.cu lture.australian,aus.legal,aus.general,aus.cars Subject: Re: Pro-homosexual ad on TV References: <3eb8bed8$0$1028$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <3eba228d$0$21132$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <2YDua.6509$_o4.89799@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3ebb5c54$0$1027$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 01:20:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.45.196.37 X-Complaints-To: abuse@bigpond.net.au X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 1052529608 203.45.196.37 (Sat, 10 May 2003 11:20:08 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:20:08 EST Organization: BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.net.au) Xref: news-server.bigpond.net.au aus.religion:22443 aus.religion.christian:87697 aus.religion.judaism:6909 aus.politics:534148 soc.culture.australian:135988 aus.legal:54635 aus.general:93420 aus.cars:370255 - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sun May 11 13:19:01 2003 I don't need your premission to hold a religious belief--but by all means if you have something to say to substantiate your soul--do! That I can fully articulate my diverse religious views across a wide range of newsgroups is not only denied by you, but it is held to be insufficient grounds for autonomous religious belief, a human and Constitutiona; Right by those who hold insubstantial religious views as the basis of ceaseless history of religious values based persecution by Australians--It stands in contrast to their indulgence of paedophiles amongst Christian clergy. What is probably overlooked by veritas , is that I am a seventh-day Sabbath keeping Christian who is able to articulate their religious belief by a mathematical equation--the 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath as a Cosmological attribute of Nature and Wisdom by which Deity as Creator is particularised as evidence of God's Everlasting Covenant reality. As I have continued to be subject to quasi-Christian values based persecution by Sunday-sacred hymenealism which can be shown to be a claim to Christianity without basis in fact, I have every intention of making a claim of religious persecution against AXA Global (Australia) Insurance, Diane Sisley as Executive Officer of the Equal Opportunity Commission, the Victoria Police et al. That your claim to religious belief is not only insubstantial, but on the basis of such belief and typical of Australians, you feel in superiority you can denigrate the lives of others by your claim to belief or unbelief--I however will continue to press my claim of Human and Constitutional rights violations as religious persecution against AXA Global (Group) Insurance (now in its 7th year), Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commission, Victoria Police, and the Alfred Hospital et al... - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "veritas" wrote in message news:3EBDB3D5.8080402@hotmail.com... If you don't "reply" to my posts, you end the debate right there and then - the answer is quite simple and completely within your control :) I suggest that it is *not* "your newsgroup" - once you post it becomes public forum and you tacitly agree to what ever flows as a consequence - if you don't like the result - don't lie about what you *will* do - do what you promised to do and don't post anymore. I may surprise you that the world will, never-the-less continue to rotate without your input. I suspect you have learnt that already - no one pleaded for you to continue to post when you threatened to recently "leave". In fact, your apparent inane drivel, on inappropriate news-groups, only serves to invite the criticism and or derogatory remarks that seem to follow. If it is within your intellect, Go figure why! You don't "talk to" - you "talk at" fellow users - most of whom take exception to the content thereof - the vast majority just ignore you while a few, "bait" you for sport! Name ONE person that (when not taking the mickey) you can hold a serious and or meaningful conversation with on ANY news group. Just look at your cross posting. You can't be serious about thinking that you will not draw the crabs when you post rather bizarre religious topics on non religious forums. People might be excused to reply with vehement opposition to your non topical posts drawing serious questions to your mental state or alternatively, your motives for doing so. Personally, I think you are an idiot! - Take that to the UN! veritas From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sat May 17 22:54:57 2003 Well, that was about my last response to you Barry. Given that you have no relationship with God and consequently your religious based newsgroup behaviour appears psychopathic and sychophantic--Not the kind of human being I want to be around. Its probably best to place you in the ignore file and put some years between us, lest your health deteriorates further--And we become an object of your affections. - dolf "Barry OGrady" wrote in message news:fk6ccvclas3miqk1lml3pkbonmqms21jec@4ax.com... I always suspected that Dolf used a random phrase generator. Now I know! DOLF NOTE: Speaking of Nature, I'm not sure why it is on this the 7th day, Saturday the Sabbath of YAHWEH the deification (God) according to Jews, Christians and those who adhere to metaphysical theology and regulative phisophy alike, that you don't retract your adverse religious values based judgements as past vexatious characterisations! - dolf "Barry OGrady" wrote in message news:5scbcv0ub0a49i06b9qgdvmqo2h3huldrp@4ax.com... God made me this way, though I have been able to improve myself by fighting my God given nature. Thank you for the compliment. -Barry ======== Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information. Voicemail/fax number +14136227640 DOLF NOTE: I can't quite decide if you were born the way you are, or whether it is the product of what you would call lifestyle. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "Barry OGrady" wrote in message news:mbr9cvcg65rsvc27q1hr8nher0krotlrhf@4ax.com... You really should keep quiet Dolf, since you are the spammer and trouble maker. "Barry OGrady" wrote in message news:ibr9cvs1iqsc2arplb1mthqs7o4plkif3k@4ax.com... You need my permission and you don't have it. DOLF NOTE: Barry, If the mental illness is as apparent as you say it is, why then have I unnecessarily endured AXA Global (Australian) Group Insurance who engaged in religious and constitutional rights oppression, perjury and obstructing justice as attempts to liquidate a person's life by any means--under the auspices of a life continuance insurance policy. Until my claim of 18 years of religious vilification/persecution by Australians as a claim of Human & Constitutional Rights violations against AXA Global (Australia) Group Insurance, Victoria Police and the Equal Opportunity Commission is concluded, I expect to see further instances by Australians of impugnity directed towards me and disruption of my participation within newsgroups as opportunity to seek and converse with people within similar diverse interests to myself. Australians afteral have false romanticized notions of Sunday sacred Christianity, which since the elapse of the Telos apogee, has no biblical merit, and have forgotten that in many regards they have failed to distinguish their institutional practice from Germany's 3rd Reich as a Christian religious revivalist phenomenon. Who made similar uncontested quasi-religious/political values judgments against sovereign aspects of a person's being, namely 'gender and sexuality identity'--as the 4 Nuremberg laws perpetuated against 7th day Sabbath keeping Jews. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "Barry OGrady" wrote in message news:tq06cvg9ikia3jn92l62416qnfm4mm7aj6@4ax.com... Mental illness does not have the stigma it used to have. I am sure you still have your part to play in the world, such as an object of ridicule, or practice for the police in removing a terrorist threat. If there is some sense to your telos 22/7=666 stuff you must explain it in simple terms. Otherwise people will continue to mock you. "Barry OGrady" wrote in message news:3316cvosauo62i9dbbm5njhe2nfcmg9nqb@4ax.com... I feel I am unworthy of your special attention when so many are clamoring for you to complain to their ISP. What about this for an idea, Dolf? You get hold of spamming software that harvests email addresses. You then use the spamming software to generate complaints to all their ISPs. A complaint has been sent to your ISP about your spamming and threats. From hunter1@arach.net.au Sun May 18 15:13:32 2003 Dolf Boek wrote: > Well, that was about my last response to you Barry. Sure it is Dolf, just like you were going to stop posting wayyyyy back. You're nothing but a lying demented sack of spamming shit. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sun May 11 13:48:57 2003 Do undertand that the religious persecution being directed towards me by Australians is one of an improper bearing on sovereign aspects of my being, namely 'gender and sexuality idenity' as false accusations of mental health impunity--Such as is the chorus of the "if you don't participate in football or cricket you aren't Australian" crowd. I do think many Australians have false romanticised notions of Sunday sacred Christianity, which has no biblical merit, and forget that in many regards they have failed to distinguish it from Germany's 3rd Reich as a Christian religious revivalist phenomenon--I also find it extraordinary that Jews in Australia can cry about the holocaust at the same time they make the same religious judgments against sovereign aspects of other's being, namely 'gender and sexuality idenity'--as the 4 Nuremberg laws did of them. Why did they let it happen? I have done absolutely everything in life to maintain good mental health. But after 18 years of fighting such false accusations and being denied justice by Australians, I will be continue to potest political and religious abuses within Australia, by pursuing legal action as a claim of human and Constitutional Rights violations as religious persecution--Liberty, Education, Justice & Political opportunity is only available within Australia for the priviledged. I don't need your premission to hold a religious belief--but by all means if you have something to say to substantiate your soul--do! That I can fully articulate my diverse religious views across a wide range of newsgroups is not only denied by you, but it is held to be insufficient grounds for autonomous religious belief, a human and Constitutiona; Right by those who hold insubstantial religious views as the basis of ceaseless history of religious values based persecution by Australians--It stands in contrast to their indulgence of paedophiles amongst Christian clergy. What is probably overlooked by veritas , is that I am a seventh-day Sabbath keeping Christian who is able to articulate their religious belief by a mathematical equation--the 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath as a Cosmological attribute of Nature and Wisdom by which Deity as Creator is particularised as evidence of God's Everlasting Covenant reality. As I have continued to be subject to quasi-Christian values based persecution by Sunday-sacred hymenealism which can be shown to be a claim to Christianity without basis in fact, I have every intention of making a claim of religious persecution against AXA Global (Australia) Insurance, Diane Sisley as Executive Officer of the Equal Opportunity Commission, the Victoria Police et al. That your claim to religious belief is not only insubstantial, but on the basis of such belief and typical of Australians, you feel in superiority you can denigrate the lives of others by your claim to belief or unbelief--I however will continue to press my claim of Human and Constitutional rights violations as religious persecution against AXA Global (Group) Insurance (now in its 7th year), Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commission, Victoria Police, and the Alfred Hospital et al... - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html "veritas" wrote in message news:3EBDB3D5.8080402@hotmail.com... If you don't "reply" to my posts, you end the debate right there and then - the answer is quite simple and completely within your control :) I suggest that it is *not* "your newsgroup" - once you post it becomes public forum and you tacitly agree to what ever flows as a consequence - if you don't like the result - don't lie about what you *will* do - do what you promised to do and don't post anymore. I may surprise you that the world will, never-the-less continue to rotate without your input. I suspect you have learnt that already - no one pleaded for you to continue to post when you threatened to recently "leave". In fact, your apparent inane drivel, on inappropriate news-groups, only serves to invite the criticism and or derogatory remarks that seem to follow. If it is within your intellect, Go figure why! You don't "talk to" - you "talk at" fellow users - most of whom take exception to the content thereof - the vast majority just ignore you while a few, "bait" you for sport! Name ONE person that (when not taking the mickey) you can hold a serious and or meaningful conversation with on ANY news group. Just look at your cross posting. You can't be serious about thinking that you will not draw the crabs when you post rather bizarre religious topics on non religious forums. People might be excused to reply with vehement opposition to your non topical posts drawing serious questions to your mental state or alternatively, your motives for doing so. Personally, I think you are an idiot! - Take that to the UN! veritas From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sun May 11 16:36:43 2003 Once again "infidel" is typical of those who are known for contributing nothing of substance but vitriol on newsgroups. Who, evidently beyond superficiality, falsely claim a spiritual life of depth and soul. The inference that one can assume from Telos = Arch + c² is that it is a Kabbalistic mathematical conception of soul reflecting the Protestant scholastic view of the Greek/Latin term 'TELOS' I have not heard that SDA's reject my theories. On the contrary, apart from my theory of which I hold the sole copyright, the Seventh-day Adventist church has no continuing validity--Certainly if they wish to license it from me, they can do so. As the chronological conception is compatible with Seventh-day Adventist belief {ie. 457 BCE command to rebuild Jerusalem, Jesus in 30CE etc), they will no doubt recognise my right to intellectual property as indeed they have pursued protection of their trademark within the courts. It is evident from religious rersecution in Australia--Liberty, Education, Justice & Political Opportunity Only for the Priviledged. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html X-Trace: newsfeeds.bigpond.com 1052606970 144.138.87.139 (Sun, 11 May 2003 08:49:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 08:49:30 EST "infidel" wrote in message news:_lfva.32261$1s1.470470@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... Dolf! You post what ordinary people refer to as Double Dutch.! No insult, FACT! As for telos (.............. etc) That is Gnosticism! Basically the Bible, the "Word of God" is what you have probs with. Incidently, maybe also the SDA's reject your theories! You haven't got AIDS, only a vivid imagination! It seems you seek attention. Cheers FA --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Don't you feel sorry for the little boy who put his finger in a leaking dyke thereby saving Holland." -------------------------------------------------------------------- I. "veritas" wrote in message news:3EBC53CB.7030602@hotmail.com... > > > Dolf Boek wrote: > > Dear "H9" , > > > > If you have nothing to say, then given your apparent lack of education, > > resist the temptation to denigrate others by engaging in unreasoned > > hate-speech! I've extended the newsgroups to include aus.cars as your > > familiar participation. > > > > I'm not sure why I have to put up with this continual public life impugnity > > as religious values based persecution and Constitutional Rights violations > > by those who you'd otherwise expect to uphold..... > > You certainly don't - just piss-off > > veritas > From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sun May 11 16:39:46 2003 Once again "infidel" is typical of those who are known for contributing nothing of substance but vitriol on newsgroups. Who, evidently beyond superficiality, falsely claim a spiritual life of depth and soul. The inference that one can assume from Telos = Arch + c² is that it is a Kabbalistic mathematical conception of soul reflecting the Protestant scholastic view of the Greek/Latin term 'TELOS' I have not heard that SDA's reject my theories. On the contrary, apart from my theory of which I hold the sole copyright, the Seventh-day Adventist church has no continuing validity--Certainly if they wish to license it from me, they can do so. As the chronological conception is compatible with Seventh-day Adventist belief {ie. 457 BCE command to rebuild Jerusalem, Jesus in 30CE etc), they will no doubt recognise my right to intellectual property as indeed they have pursued protection of their trademark within the courts. It is evident from religious persecution in Australia--That Liberty, Education, Justice & Political Opportunity are only available for the priviledged. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html Letters Patent to Australian Constitution: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html X-Trace: newsfeeds.bigpond.com 1052606970 144.138.87.139 (Sun, 11 May 2003 08:49:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 08:49:30 EST "infidel" wrote in message news:_lfva.32261$1s1.470470@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... Dolf! You post what ordinary people refer to as Double Dutch.! No insult, FACT! As for telos (.............. etc) That is Gnosticism! Basically the Bible, the "Word of God" is what you have probs with. Incidently, maybe also the SDA's reject your theories! You haven't got AIDS, only a vivid imagination! It seems you seek attention. Cheers FA --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Don't you feel sorry for the little boy who put his finger in a leaking dyke thereby saving Holland." -------------------------------------------------------------------- I. "veritas" wrote in message news:3EBC53CB.7030602@hotmail.com... > > > Dolf Boek wrote: > > Dear "H9" , > > > > If you have nothing to say, then given your apparent lack of education, > > resist the temptation to denigrate others by engaging in unreasoned > > hate-speech! I've extended the newsgroups to include aus.cars as your > > familiar participation. > > > > I'm not sure why I have to put up with this continual public life impugnity > > as religious values based persecution and Constitutional Rights violations > > by those who you'd otherwise expect to uphold..... > > You certainly don't - just piss-off > > veritas > From smileyb1@optusnet.com.au Mon May 12 17:17:30 2003 "Dolf Boek" wrote in message news:%UAva.2382$DP4.27874@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > "veritas" , > > Your innane responses are constitute harassment and are not wanted. > > Once again Veritas, I don't need your permission to participate on > newsgroups. Suffice to say that I have noted your comments as further proof > of religious persecution in Australia--That Liberty, Education, Justice & > Political Opportunity Only for the > Priviledged! And he does not need your permission to participate on newsgroups either, nor dose anyone else. I have not seen any post attacking your beliefs on this newsgroup. all I see is you spamming, and attacking others in what they say. I can see that you are not a disciple of Jesus as you reject his command to "Love one another" (John 13:34-35, see v35). All I see from you is hate toward those that do not agree with you. So you should not be posting this stuff to aus.religion.christian, as it has nothing to do with it. post some of your beliefs to this newsgroup and let me review what they are. In Christ. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Tue May 13 00:16:27 2003 Love isn't hypcoritical like Australia's Sunday Sacred, Hymenalist Christians, Depite my being able to articulate my religious beliefs and despite my rights under the Australian Constitution and the United Nations ICCPR I am disavowed my Christian beliefs, by Australians who have no capacity to prove their factititous claim to Christianity as Sunday sacred, hymeanalism--Hence a legal claim of human and Constitution rights violations as religious persection by is being made. There is of course a history by the Australian Government of incursions into religious liverty. I recall reading somewhere that at one point, following lobbying by Roman Catholic clergy, the Australian Government sought to have an Adelaide group of Jehovah's Witness declared at a time of conflict, a subversive group. Our Monarchy as Head of Church, establishes religion as a sovereign right, which we as free and democtratic peoples may engage. However, if one is denied their religious and constitutional rights at a time of war {ie. Afghanistan and Iraq}, is it not treasonable? I refute as hypocrisy, a lie and blasphemy your claim to being 'In Christ' - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/index.html "Smiley" wrote in message news:3ebf4aa2$0$405$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... And he does not need your permission to participate on newsgroups either, nor dose anyone else. I have not seen any post attacking your beliefs on this newsgroup. all I see is you spamming, and attacking others in what they say. I can see that you are not a disciple of Jesus as you reject his command to "Love one another" (John 13:34-35, see v35). All I see from you is hate toward those that do not agree with you. So you should not be posting this stuff to aus.religion.christian, as it has nothing to do with it. post some of your beliefs to this newsgroup and let me review what they are. In Christ. From hunter1@arach.net.au Tue May 20 00:23:24 2003 Dolf, you seem more than happy to make complaints to Bigpond and other ISP's and threaten other's with legal action, yet you are breaching your own ISP's (BigPond) Acceptable Usage Policy, in particular : 2.2(g) to store, publish, display, distribute or post material that is obscene, offensive, defamatory, abusive or that violates any law or regulation; As you are accusing AXA Global (Australian) Group Insurance of perjury and "obstructing justice", which quite obviously falls into the realm of defamatory. 4.1(a) engage in mass posting of messages or the posting of messages to inappropriate newsgroups; As you are quite obviously in breach of with the mass amount of threads you have started in numerous newsgroups on what now seems to be an almost daily basis (as I've noticed in other threads, you've even resorted to throwing in groups such as aus.cars into your spammed rubbish, to the vehement protests of the denizens of that group which you continually and totally ignore) in your vendetta against AXA. and 4.1(d) post large or numerous messages with the purpose of disrupting a newsgroup; And again your numerous threads in your vendetta against AXA are doing nothing except disrupting all of these newsgroups, as can be seen by the fact that no-one is in agreement with you and everyone is asking you to please shut the hell up. So in relation to your continual complaints against people who are justifiably annoyed with your actions, and threats of legal action, perhaps you should realise that people in glass houses should not throw stones Dolf, and I invite everyone who is sick of your garbage to forward each of your posts that breach the AUP of your ISP back to abuse@bigpond.net.au so that they may take the appropriate action against you when they realise how annoying you have become to the rest of the usenet community here in Australia. (I have also included AXA in the recipient list of this post so they can also see what you are publicly accusing them of. Apologies to AXA corp if the email address I have selected is not the most appropriate one, but it was the only one I was able to locate other than your helpdesk address, and thought you guys may be quite interested to know about the sorts of accusations being made against you by this sorry individual on an almost daily basis.) Dolf Boek wrote: > As the topic is about religous persecution within Australia and the capacity > for AXA Global (Australian) Group Insurance to engage in religious and > constitutional rights oppression, perjury and obstructing justice as > attempts to liquidate a person's life by any means--under the auspices of a > life continuance insurance policy. > > I don't see how your contribution is relevant and a further complaint to > that effect has been made to abuse*bigpond.com > > - dolf > > "veritas" wrote in message > news:3EBEEC47.6090105@hotmail.com... > Totally agree :) > > I can't help wondering what the Jewish, Christian and other religious groups > that he > posts to make of all this? It seems that their subscribers are too well > mannered to > comment. But me - well, I have the time on my hands to disagree with him - > but I > have tired of it now - I will have to take up a hobby I think. > > veritas > > John W Howard wrote: > > Methinks Adolf is a little bit disturbed. From hunter1@arach.net.au Tue May 20 00:23:24 2003 Dolf, you seem more than happy to make complaints to Bigpond and other ISP's and threaten other's with legal action, yet you are breaching your own ISP's (BigPond) Acceptable Usage Policy, in particular : 2.2(g) to store, publish, display, distribute or post material that is obscene, offensive, defamatory, abusive or that violates any law or regulation; As you are accusing AXA Global (Australian) Group Insurance of perjury and "obstructing justice", which quite obviously falls into the realm of defamatory. 4.1(a) engage in mass posting of messages or the posting of messages to inappropriate newsgroups; As you are quite obviously in breach of with the mass amount of threads you have started in numerous newsgroups on what now seems to be an almost daily basis (as I've noticed in other threads, you've even resorted to throwing in groups such as aus.cars into your spammed rubbish, to the vehement protests of the denizens of that group which you continually and totally ignore) in your vendetta against AXA. and 4.1(d) post large or numerous messages with the purpose of disrupting a newsgroup; And again your numerous threads in your vendetta against AXA are doing nothing except disrupting all of these newsgroups, as can be seen by the fact that no-one is in agreement with you and everyone is asking you to please shut the hell up. So in relation to your continual complaints against people who are justifiably annoyed with your actions, and threats of legal action, perhaps you should realise that people in glass houses should not throw stones Dolf, and I invite everyone who is sick of your garbage to forward each of your posts that breach the AUP of your ISP back to abuse@bigpond.net.au so that they may take the appropriate action against you when they realise how annoying you have become to the rest of the usenet community here in Australia. (I have also included AXA in the recipient list of this post so they can also see what you are publicly accusing them of. Apologies to AXA corp if the email address I have selected is not the most appropriate one, but it was the only one I was able to locate other than your helpdesk address, and thought you guys may be quite interested to know about the sorts of accusations being made against you by this sorry individual on an almost daily basis.) Dolf Boek wrote: > As the topic is about religous persecution within Australia and the capacity > for AXA Global (Australian) Group Insurance to engage in religious and > constitutional rights oppression, perjury and obstructing justice as > attempts to liquidate a person's life by any means--under the auspices of a > life continuance insurance policy. > > I don't see how your contribution is relevant and a further complaint to > that effect has been made to abuse*bigpond.com > > - dolf > > "veritas" wrote in message > news:3EBEEC47.6090105@hotmail.com... > Totally agree :) > > I can't help wondering what the Jewish, Christian and other religious groups > that he > posts to make of all this? It seems that their subscribers are too well > mannered to > comment. But me - well, I have the time on my hands to disagree with him - > but I > have tired of it now - I will have to take up a hobby I think. > > veritas > > John W Howard wrote: > > Methinks Adolf is a little bit disturbed. From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Tue May 13 00:41:44 2003 "Theo Bekkers" wrote in message news:3ec006ed$1@news.bekkers.com.au... "I am an atheist in that I don't believe any gods exist. However, I try to keep an open mind and, should a god or hobgoblin with appropriate credentials arrive on my doorstep, I may change my mind about their existence. [snipped for context] DOLF NOTE: Is it not an inner sense? "Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, 'The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Then He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, 'Look here!' or 'Look there!' Do not go after them or follow them. For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day." [© 1982 Nelson Thomas, New King James Luke 17:20-24] I'm surprised in all my time here, that although this is a Christian newsgroup, I've not found anyone who's has been interested in the subject! - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html#MATRIX1 From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Tue May 13 17:48:15 2003 That you can't subscribe to Moses' 6,000 year cosmology over which he overlays an ontology as genealogy being 60 generations to Jesus of Nazareth, is perhaps consistent with the view that your claim to Christianity is factititious and lacks a credible and wholesome form of autonomy--Instead relying on an artificial and contrived hymeneal morality model that are common amongst Sunday Sabbatarians as anti-nomian, nominal or those who misrepresent themselves as Christian. - dolf "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305121718.5fc1bacb@posting.google.com... I find the Bible an amazing book. Within its pages are records covering 4000 years of the peoples of the middle and eastern Mediterranean area. The first book, Genesis, and about one quarter of the second book, Exodus, were most likely from an oral tradition. That does not mean they are inaccurate as peoples with an oral tradition develop their memories through constant repetition. The amazing fact is that between Adam and Noah there is an overlapping of ages so that most of those persons knew most of the others; and from Noah to Abraham there is an overlapping of ages so that most could have known most of the others. That could keep an oral tradition accurate, especially with peoples who were aware that their forebears had had a special revelation from God. [snipped for context] DOLF NOTE: The 10 Commandments as a Kabbalistic/Chronological Conception 1) Nature contains Nature (FOCUS) 2) Nature rejoices in its Nature (EQUITY) 3) Nature surmounts Nature (RATIO) 1 + 2 + 3 = Supernal Triad which acts upon TIME {ie. Kepler's 3 Cosmological Laws} 4) Nature amended in its Nature [Aleph {1+30+80 = 111 /#6}] - Nature contains Nature (#1 - 22/7 as 3W1D - Adam) 5) Act of Nature [Beth {2+10+400 = 412 /#6}] - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#2 - 26J5W - Noah) 6) Form of Nature [Gimel {3+40+30 = 73 /#3}] - Nature surmounts Nature (#3 - 40J4W as Everlasting Covenant [Hebrews 6:13-20]) 7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}] - Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Torah @ Sinai]) 8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}] - Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} + 3(32+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) 9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}] - Form of Nature (#6 - cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of 69th week {72J71W5D} - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE) 10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}] - Engendering Nature (#7 - Telos Topical year/day solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days = 122J3W1D : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6 remaining)) ... 9(92 +1)/2 = 369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} days with center #41 Mem = Thursday, 13 September, 2001 [#41 #41/(#41 - Playing with Reversal; cf: vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0) Hebrew Calendar: {4 x 91 [30+30+31] Quarters (364 days)} + 5 CHAD? 354 day lunar year x 3 years = 1062 + 30 day month = 1092 days as 364 day solar year x 3 = 1092 days : 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 as typical lunar year & 9(92 +1)/2 {52W5D} - 3(32 +1)/2 {2W1D} = 354 as typical lunar year; For example: {353 days} 17 Sept, 2001 + {354 days} 6 Sept, 2002 + ({385 days} 29 Sept, 2000 or {385 days} 26 Sept, 2003) = 1092 days]{v's Jubilee 2000 myth as fraudulent claim to Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church et al}] Thus if the equation Telos {122J3W1D} = Arch {22/7 as 3W1D} + c2 representing the decade sequence, is then further synchronized with a topical solar eclipse occurring leap year cycle: 1997 {Wednesday}, 1998 {Thursday}, 1999 {Friday}, 2000 {Saturday} + Solar Eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days of the Topical {365.242198781} Year. the number of elapsed days is precisely 2,191,453.192686 days and when divisible by 7 gives approximately 5 {HE} days remaining; when divisible by 22 gives the character {KAF} as the 11th remaining, when divisible by 41 gives the remaining value as 3 {GIMEL}, when divisible by 369 gives the remaining value 331 {+38=369}. The Gregorian 400 year calendar is also in effect the elapse of a 7-day cycle within 400 years: 400 x 365.2425 {Approximate length of the topical year} = 146,097 days. However when this historical usage is extended to 6,000 x 365.2425 = 2,191,455 it gives a parallax error of 2 elapsed days. However the elapse of 293 x 365.2425 {solar topical years} = ordinal of 107016 days reflects the 'oth character of the value 294 [6J] years, which when multiplied by {364} = 107016 day cycle [ie. Law @ Sinai in [50J] + 12 x [6J] + [3W1D] = 6,000 years. [Ref: Qumran 364-day Calendar by Phil Smith] The Sun is also 400 times larger than the Moon, it is 400 times farther from the Earth. A direct consequence of this fortuitous geometry is that during a total solar eclipse, the Moon occults the Sun with a nearly perfect fit. [Fred Espenak's 'Fifty Year Canon of Solar Eclipses: 1986-2035' as United States of America's NASA {The Goddard Space Flight Centre, Greenbelt, Maryland} Reference Publication 1178 Revised (July 1987) [ISBN 0-933346-45-X http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/093334645X ] Of particular interest is Australia's 28 year Geodesic Total Solar Eclipses for: 4 December, 2002 {Figure #67 on Page 179} and 25 November, 2030 {Figure #129 on Page 241} Vehuel [241°-245° /Nov 23-27 /Sagittarius /Fire /Vav{6} He{5} Vav{6} = 17 (#3) Latin: Mirabilis Alt: Natahyah {The Cutting of God}] { 1. HELPS FIND PEACE AGAINST TROUBLE 2. GREAT PERSONALITIES {Zerubbabel - offspring of Babylon - [72J] + 3(3²+1)/2 as [2W1D] = 457 BCE ...} 3. HUMILITY} {#6 - Solar eclipse Nov 25, 2030} [#49 (#46/#59 - A Sensible Guide/ Hold Fast To Reason) {Transforming NATURE / Act of NATURE}] {PAWN} Daniel {God is my judge} [246°-250° /Nov 28-Dec 2 /Sagittarius /Fire /Daleth{4} Nun{50} Yod{10} = 64 (#1) Latin: Invacandus Alt: Haayah {Behold God}] { 1. PROTECTS & CONSOLES. INSPIRES IN DECISIONS 2. JUSTICE AND LAWYERS 3. JUDGES} [#2 (#47/#10 - Impossible Advice/ What can Be Done?) {Engendering NATURE / NATURE Amended in its NATURE}] {PAWN} Hahaziah [251°-255° /Dec 3-7 /Sagittarius /Fire /He{5} Heth{8} Shin{300} = 313 (#5) Latin: Salvator Alt: Yarahel {Archery of God}] { 1. HELPS THOSE WHO WISH TO KNOW THE OCCULT MYSTERIES 2. CHEMISTRY {#8 - Solar eclipse Wed Dec 4, 2002 + 28 years} 3. THE ABSTRACT SCIENCES} [#9 (#31/#51 - Natural Guides and Natural Virtuosity/ Nursing Virtue) {Form of NATURE / NATURE Surmounts NATURE}] {PAWN} This 28 day/year {viz Australia's Geodesic Solar Eclipses for 4 Dec, 2002 & 25 Nov, 2030} cycle also forms part of the Hebrew Torah's Base-7 or 56 solar year Jubilee cycle: D = 7 {0} W = 71 {7} J = 72 {49} K=73 {343} {343-49=294 years [6J] as King David's Creation Reprise} 6,000 years [122J3W1D] = Law @ Sinai {50J} + 12 x 294 years [6J] + pi [3W1D] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed May 14 15:03:19 2003 I suppose what that all means {ie. epistlemological hermeneutic on the English language taxonomy below}, is that everytime you write something, it gives a perspective into your own being, "Brethren, do not be children in understanding, however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. In the law it is written: 'For with odd speech and mocking tongue these people were scoffing ... therefore they will be handed over to the Gentiles, who do not know the law...' [© Isaiah 28:9-13] And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed..." [1 Corithians 14:20-25] - dolf "eric stefik" wrote in message news:3T7wa.70061$4P1.6374854@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... Maybe it depends what kind of car you drive, to qualify for religious persecution. It might be best to avoid a Rolls Holy Ghost or Pontiac Sahara. ES DOLF NOTE: Dear Eric, For me at least, the equation n(n² + 1)/2 produces a precognitive {ie. vMeme/Moment) model of time and is the foundational basis of my epistlemological hermeneutic on the English language taxonomy below. Such that words convey experiences and ideas. If one remains true to ones words, then there is fidelity in the vMeme/Moment object being conveyed and anticipated by the circular Nature of Time. It would hardly be true to the ideals Australian mateship and much less a claim to religious belief, not to recognise the passage of soul of another before it happens: "At least 20 people, including 10 Americans and an Australian, have been killed by three suicide bombers in a series of attacks in the Saudi capital of Riyadh on Monday 12 May, 2003" As I did before at 1605 HRS 12 OCT 2002 TO AN UNUSUAL WEEK OF BEING SUBJECT TO WRONG NUMBERS: "The exercise of the faculty of intellect & judgment, finds its highest ideal in religious intent in secular time. To conceive thus the Shekinah, Holy Spirit, Word, Memra, Forces & Authority over Chaos, ie: FROM 'ONE' TO 'TEN' - A Treatise on the origin & extension of the prime manifestation on the physical plane! Did you hear that former US President Jimmy Carter received the Nobel Peace Prize? So yesterday AEST there I was contemplating how precognition can sometimes [b]e viewed as precociousness and by strange happenstance, Merriam-Webster word for today is unbeknownst. The Word of the Day for October 12 is: unbeknownst \un-bih-NOHNST\ (adjective) : happening without one's knowledge : unknown -- usually used with "to" Example sentence: Unbeknownst to the barbecue guests, Dad had scooped the fallen hot dogs off the grass and quietly placed them back on the grill. Did you know? "Unbeknownst" derives from "beknown," an obsolete synonym of "known" that traces back to the days of Old English. But for a word with a straightforward history, "unbeknownst" and its synonym "unbeknown" have created quite a flap among usage commentators. Despite widespread use (including appearances in the writings of Charles Dickens, A.E. Housman, and E.B. White), the two words have been called everything from "obsolete" and "vulgar" to "perfectly acceptable." Our evidence shows that both can be considered standard. ---------------- Brought to you by Merriam-Webster, Inc. http://www.Merriam-Webster.com END EXAMPLE] epistlemological hermeneutic on the English language taxonomy A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} ----- Original Message ----- From: Dolf Boek Newsgroups: aus.religion,aus.religion.christian,aus.religion.judaism,aus.politics,soc.cu lture.australian,aus.legal,aus.general,aus.cars Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [HTML/GIF] Pro-homosexual ad on TV Thank-you and excuse my impertinance in suggesting that you having reminded me to put in a freedom of information request to the Victoria Police concerning whether the phone on the wall in the Russell Street General Duties Police Muster Room which I answered on my way from the Computer Services Division to reactiv[ating] downed computers within the State's Police radio command centre, was subject to recording--I believe that since it was a central point of contact between the radio command centre and the police muster room, that it might well have been! [IMAGE OF SCENE] MY REFLECTIONS OF THE RUSSELL STREET POLICE COMPLEX, MELBOURNE BOMBING OF 1 PM THURSDAY 27 MARCH 1986: "Do you know what it is like to walk through a shattered building moments after a bomb has gone off. To have time [to] answer an incessant phone, to reassure the voice at the other end, that most were okay. And hope that Jack Inglis who borrowed his neighbour's car, got far enough away. And get to your destination, to find the police in disarray? I'm sure even Rob Jell will tell you, 'Nothing happens by accident.' So don't ever say, it can't happen here..." - dolf "veritas" wrote in message news:3EBC599A.6080906@hotmail.com... Happy to oblige. veritas Dolf Boek wrote: > Thank for your acknowledgement of my objection to your gratuitious remark .... From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Thu May 15 06:40:37 2003 Actually the New Testament era Christians were Jewish and Gentile proselytes to Judaism. Beyond strident examples of 7th day Sabbath worship given in the New Testament Scriptures in continuing support of the Torah as Oracles of God, there is no actually no evidence of Sunday sacred hymenealism and other forms of occultism being adopted as acceptable by the disciples or the early church--In fact it is rejected. Indeed the view is that the Gentiles had a distinct lack of knowledge of the Law of God and the Jews failed to observe it. The examples which "Gladys Swager" gives as factititious and blasphemous claim to the Christian faith, are insubstantial as the bible and dead sea scrolls cache show a different picture--7th day Sabbath keeping Christians as God's Covenant people being systematically exterminated by Apostate Jews and Gentiles who do not know the law: "Brethren, do not be children in understanding, however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. In the law it is written: 'For with odd speech and mocking tongue these people were scoffing ... THEREFORE THEY WILL BE HANDED OVER TO THE GENTILES WHO DO NOT KNOW THE LAW...' [© Isaiah 28:9-13] And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed..." [1 Corithians 14:20-25] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305140526.7ecb8fbc@posting.google.com... I still can't post from another's post. Dolf, you do not understand the work of Jesus Christ, His death and His resurrection. The Sabbath, Saturday, of the Jewish law was a day of death for Jesus. He, as the Son of God, had taken the sins of the world with Him on the Cross. To show that His sacrifice was acceptable to the triune God of Whom He was the Son together with the Father and the Holy Spirit, He was resurrected on the Sunday, the first day of the New Covenant between God and sinful humans by which through faith in Christ we have a personal relationship with God through the forgiveness of sins. By faith are (we) saved through grace and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. The disciples from then on kept the first day of the week as a special day. That first day of the week of the new covenant matches the first day of creation in Genesis when God said, "Let there be light" and there was light. From the Zondervan Bible Dictionary, The possession of light is one of the most remarkable and valuable blessings of this earthly sphere, without which life as we know it could not exist. Scientific studies of the nature, properties and effects of light have only enhanced its wonders. Its crucial importance for life early led to the worship of the sun, the great source of the worls's light and heat - an idolatry condemned by scripture. Jesus said of Himself that He was the Light of the World. The keeping of the day, however, does not make us Christian. All your postings of pages of statistics are of little importance. You need Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour. "For God so loved to world that He gave His only begotten son, Jesus Christ, so that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish (ie spend Eternity apart from God), but shall have Eternal Life." Gladys From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Thu May 15 09:49:30 2003 "An important theological tenet of the Yahad Dead Sea Scroll community was the notion of predestination: from the very beginning, God had foreordained how history would develop, who would inherit eternal life, and who was destined for perdition. The Ages of the World is apparently a full discussion of this notion, proving the idea using examples drawn from the biblical text. In the surviving portions, the example of the ten generations between Shem and Abraham is the centerpiece." [Wise, Abegg & Cook, p 238] "Interpretation concerning the ages which God has made: An age to conclude all that there is and all that will be. Before creating them he determined their operations according to the precise sequence of the ages, one age after another age. And this is engraved on the heavenly tables for the sons of men {cf: A distict theological connotation connected with the genealogical literature known as the Book of Time Divisions in Weeks and Jubilees}, for all the ages of their dominion. THIS IS THE SEQUENCE OF THE SONS OF NOAH, FROM SHEM TO ABRAHAM, UNTIL HE SIRED ISAAC; TEN GENERATIONS." [4Q180 - 4QAges of Creation A Frag 1:1-5; DSS BRILL 199:371] It would appear that the principle Messianic Sabbathical blessing and testimony which is micro-ethically conveyed by the 10 Words (10 Commandments), is also understood to be derived from the 22 generations from Adam {Taken from 4 corners/Earthy; red} to Jacob {He takes by the heel, he supplants/That supplants, undermines; the heel} and especially from the genealogy of Shem {Exhalted Name/Name, renown} [Genesis 11:10] as the 10 generations of sons from Noah {Rest/Repose; consolation; That quavers or totters (Zelophehad's daughter - the shade or tingling of fear)} to Isaac {He laughs}. That is, if I map the genealogy of the Hebrews from Noah to Isaac as 10 Generation as ontology to the cosmological model conveyed by the taxonomy {as epistlemological hermeneutic}, it was historically understood to micro-ethically represent the 10 Commandments (ie # = Tao Te Ching and Psalm of David Referece): For example, if I focus this onto a portion of the Genealogy thusly: NOAH {Rest/ Repose; consolation} 1. Yod/L {[#79 (#26/#30 - Government without Coercion/ Be Chary of War) {26J 5W - FOCUS = Ratio/ Totality of Nature - May 6-10}]} SHEM {Exhalted Name/ Name, renown} 2. Kaf /M {[#77 (#61/#71 - Know-How as a Disease/ The Disease of Knowledge) {EQUITY - May 11-15}]} ARPHAXAD {I shall fail as the breast: he cursed the breast-bottle/ A healer; a releaser} 3. Lamed/N {[#75 (#62/#22 - The Point to Reversal?/ Humility's Increase) {RATIO - May 16-20}] } SHELAH {Sprout/That breaks; that unties; that undresses} 4. Mem/P {[#34 (#65/#63 - Origins in Reversal/ Consider Beginnings) {NATURE contains NATURE - May 21-25 }] } HEBER {The region beyond/ One that passes; anger} 5. Nun/Q {[#32 (#28/#14 - Metaphysical Issues/ Praising the Mysterious) {NATURE rejoices in its NATURE - May 26-31}] } PELEG {Division} / PEREZ {divided} 6. Samek/R {[#30 (#76/#46 - Guiding Contentment/ Moderation of Desire) {NATURE surmounts NATURE - Jun 1-5}] ) SERUG {Branch/ Layer; twining} 7. Ayin/S {[#17 (#30/#39 - Achieving Oneness/ The Root of Order) {NATURE amended in its NATURE - Jun 11-15}]} NAHOR {Snorting/ Hoarse; dry; hot} 8. Pe/T {[#78 (#35/#80 - Primitivist Independence/ Remaining in Isolation) {Act of NATURE - Jun 16-21}]} TERAH {Station, delay, a station of Israel in the wilderness/ To breathe; scent; blow} 9. Tsade/V {[#73 (#51/#31 - Military Strategies as Guides/ Quelling War) {Form of NATURE - Jun 22-26}] } ABRAM {Exalted father} ABRAHAM {Father of a multitude, chief of multitude} 10. Qoph/W {[#80 (#53/#72 - Self-Love/ Holding Oneself Dear)] {40J4W - Engendering NATURE - Jun 27-Jul 1}]} ISAAC {He laughs} 11. Resh/X {[#33 (#36/#23 - The Constancy of Guiding Concepts/ Emptiness & Non-Existence)] {Transforming NATURE - Jul 2-6}]} JACOB - He takes by the heel, he supplants/ That supplants, undermines; the heel 12. Shin/Y { [#28 (#23/#55 - Abstruse Signs/ The Signet of the Mysterious)] {Autonomous NATURE - Jul 7-11}]} JUDAH {the praise of the Lord; confession} 13. Tau/Z { [#35 (#75/#15 - Mastering Guiding Discourse/ The Revealers of Virtue)] {Totality of NATURE - Jul 12-16} ]} "'What will be the dividing of the times? Or when will be the end of the first age and the beginning of the age that follows?' He said to me, 'From Abraham {Father of a multitude, chief of multitude} to Isaac {He laughs}, because from him were born Jacob and Esau {he that acts or finishes}, for Jacob's hand held Esau's heel from the beginning. Now Esau is the end of this age, and Jacob is the beginning of the age that follows. The beginning of a person is the hand, and the end of a person is the heel; seek for nothing else, Ezra {help; court}, between the heel and the hand, Ezra!'" [2 Esdras 6:7-10 (NRSVA)] Actually the New Testament era Christians were Jewish and Gentile proselytes to Judaism. Beyond strident examples of 7th day Sabbath worship given in the New Testament Scriptures in continuing support of the Torah as Oracles of God, there is no actually no evidence of Sunday sacred hymenealism and other forms of occultism being adopted as acceptable by the disciples or the early church--In fact it is rejected. Indeed the view is that the Gentiles had a distinct lack of knowledge of the Law of God and the Jews failed to observe it. The examples which "Gladys Swager" gives as factititious and blasphemous claim to the Christian faith, are insubstantial as the bible and dead sea scrolls cache show a different picture--7th day Sabbath keeping Christians as God's Covenant people being systematically exterminated by Apostate Jews and Gentiles who do not know the law: "Brethren, do not be children in understanding, however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. In the law it is written: 'For with odd speech and mocking tongue these people were scoffing ... THEREFORE THEY WILL BE HANDED OVER TO THE GENTILES WHO DO NOT KNOW THE LAW...' [© Isaiah 28:9-13] And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed..." [1 Corithians 14:20-25] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305140526.7ecb8fbc@posting.google.com... I still can't post from another's post. Dolf, you do not understand the work of Jesus Christ, His death and His resurrection. The Sabbath, Saturday, of the Jewish law was a day of death for Jesus. He, as the Son of God, had taken the sins of the world with Him on the Cross. To show that His sacrifice was acceptable to the triune God of Whom He was the Son together with the Father and the Holy Spirit, He was resurrected on the Sunday, the first day of the New Covenant between God and sinful humans by which through faith in Christ we have a personal relationship with God through the forgiveness of sins. By faith are (we) saved through grace and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. The disciples from then on kept the first day of the week as a special day. That first day of the week of the new covenant matches the first day of creation in Genesis when God said, "Let there be light" and there was light. From the Zondervan Bible Dictionary, The possession of light is one of the most remarkable and valuable blessings of this earthly sphere, without which life as we know it could not exist. Scientific studies of the nature, properties and effects of light have only enhanced its wonders. Its crucial importance for life early led to the worship of the sun, the great source of the worls's light and heat - an idolatry condemned by scripture. Jesus said of Himself that He was the Light of the World. The keeping of the day, however, does not make us Christian. All your postings of pages of statistics are of little importance. You need Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour. "For God so loved to world that He gave His only begotten son, Jesus Christ, so that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish (ie spend Eternity apart from God), but shall have Eternal Life." Gladys SUMMARY OF PREVIOUS CORRESPONDENC: That you can't subscribe to Moses' 6,000 year cosmology over which he overlays an ontology as genealogy being 60 generations to Jesus of Nazareth, is perhaps consistent with the view that your claim to Christianity is factititious and lacks a credible and wholesome form of autonomy--Instead relying on an artificial and contrived hymeneal morality model that are common amongst Sunday Sabbatarians as anti-nomian, nominal or those who misrepresent themselves as Christian. - dolf "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305121718.5fc1bacb@posting.google.com... I find the Bible an amazing book. Within its pages are records covering 4000 years of the peoples of the middle and eastern Mediterranean area. The first book, Genesis, and about one quarter of the second book, Exodus, were most likely from an oral tradition. That does not mean they are inaccurate as peoples with an oral tradition develop their memories through constant repetition. The amazing fact is that between Adam and Noah there is an overlapping of ages so that most of those persons knew most of the others; and from Noah to Abraham there is an overlapping of ages so that most could have known most of the others. That could keep an oral tradition accurate, especially with peoples who were aware that their forebears had had a special revelation from God. [snipped for context] DOLF NOTE: The 10 Commandments as a Kabbalistic/Chronological Conception 1) Nature contains Nature (FOCUS) 2) Nature rejoices in its Nature (EQUITY) 3) Nature surmounts Nature (RATIO) 1 + 2 + 3 = Supernal Triad which acts upon TIME {ie. Kepler's 3 Cosmological Laws} 4) Nature amended in its Nature [Aleph {1+30+80 = 111 /#6}] - Nature contains Nature (#1 - 22/7 as 3W1D - Adam) 5) Act of Nature [Beth {2+10+400 = 412 /#6}] - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#2 - 26J5W - Noah) 6) Form of Nature [Gimel {3+40+30 = 73 /#3}] - Nature surmounts Nature (#3 - 40J4W as Everlasting Covenant [Hebrews 6:13-20]) 7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}] - Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Torah @ Sinai]) 8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}] - Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} + 3(32+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) 9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}] - Form of Nature (#6 - cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of 69th week {72J71W5D} - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE) 10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}] - Engendering Nature (#7 - Telos Topical year/day solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days = 122J3W1D : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6 remaining)) ... 9(92 +1)/2 = 369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} days with center #41 Mem = Thursday, 13 September, 2001 [#41 #41/(#41 - Playing with Reversal; cf: vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0) Hebrew Calendar: {4 x 91 [30+30+31] Quarters (364 days)} + 5 CHAD? 354 day lunar year x 3 years = 1062 + 30 day month = 1092 days as 364 day solar year x 3 = 1092 days : 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 as typical lunar year & 9(92 +1)/2 {52W5D} - 3(32 +1)/2 {2W1D} = 354 as typical lunar year; For example: {353 days} 17 Sept, 2001 + {354 days} 6 Sept, 2002 + ({385 days} 29 Sept, 2000 or {385 days} 26 Sept, 2003) = 1092 days]{v's Jubilee 2000 myth as fraudulent claim to Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church et al}] Thus if the equation Telos {122J3W1D} = Arch {22/7 as 3W1D} + c2 representing the decade sequence, is then further synchronized with a topical solar eclipse occurring leap year cycle: 1997 {Wednesday}, 1998 {Thursday}, 1999 {Friday}, 2000 {Saturday} + Solar Eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days of the Topical {365.242198781} Year. the number of elapsed days is precisely 2,191,453.192686 days and when divisible by 7 gives approximately 5 {HE} days remaining; when divisible by 22 gives the character {KAF} as the 11th remaining, when divisible by 41 gives the remaining value as 3 {GIMEL}, when divisible by 369 gives the remaining value 331 {+38=369}. The Gregorian 400 year calendar is also in effect the elapse of a 7-day cycle within 400 years: 400 x 365.2425 {Approximate length of the topical year} = 146,097 days. However when this historical usage is extended to 6,000 x 365.2425 = 2,191,455 it gives a parallax error of 2 elapsed days. However the elapse of 293 x 365.2425 {solar topical years} = ordinal of 107016 days reflects the 'oth character of the value 294 [6J] years, which when multiplied by {364} = 107016 day cycle [ie. Law @ Sinai in [50J] + 12 x [6J] + [3W1D] = 6,000 years. [Ref: Qumran 364-day Calendar by Phil Smith] The Sun is also 400 times larger than the Moon, it is 400 times farther from the Earth. A direct consequence of this fortuitous geometry is that during a total solar eclipse, the Moon occults the Sun with a nearly perfect fit. [Fred Espenak's 'Fifty Year Canon of Solar Eclipses: 1986-2035' as United States of America's NASA {The Goddard Space Flight Centre, Greenbelt, Maryland} Reference Publication 1178 Revised (July 1987) [ISBN 0-933346-45-X http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/093334645X ] Of particular interest is Australia's 28 year Geodesic Total Solar Eclipses for: 4 December, 2002 {Figure #67 on Page 179} and 25 November, 2030 {Figure #129 on Page 241} Vehuel [241°-245° /Nov 23-27 /Sagittarius /Fire /Vav{6} He{5} Vav{6} = 17 (#3) Latin: Mirabilis Alt: Natahyah {The Cutting of God}] { 1. HELPS FIND PEACE AGAINST TROUBLE 2. GREAT PERSONALITIES {Zerubbabel - offspring of Babylon - [72J] + 3(3²+1)/2 as [2W1D] = 457 BCE ...} 3. HUMILITY} {#6 - Solar eclipse Nov 25, 2030} [#49 (#46/#59 - A Sensible Guide/ Hold Fast To Reason) {Transforming NATURE / Act of NATURE}] {PAWN} Daniel {God is my judge} [246°-250° /Nov 28-Dec 2 /Sagittarius /Fire /Daleth{4} Nun{50} Yod{10} = 64 (#1) Latin: Invacandus Alt: Haayah {Behold God}] { 1. PROTECTS & CONSOLES. INSPIRES IN DECISIONS 2. JUSTICE AND LAWYERS 3. JUDGES} [#2 (#47/#10 - Impossible Advice/ What can Be Done?) {Engendering NATURE / NATURE Amended in its NATURE}] {PAWN} Hahaziah [251°-255° /Dec 3-7 /Sagittarius /Fire /He{5} Heth{8} Shin{300} = 313 (#5) Latin: Salvator Alt: Yarahel {Archery of God}] { 1. HELPS THOSE WHO WISH TO KNOW THE OCCULT MYSTERIES 2. CHEMISTRY {#8 - Solar eclipse Wed Dec 4, 2002 + 28 years} 3. THE ABSTRACT SCIENCES} [#9 (#31/#51 - Natural Guides and Natural Virtuosity/ Nursing Virtue) {Form of NATURE / NATURE Surmounts NATURE}] {PAWN} This 28 day/year {viz Australia's Geodesic Solar Eclipses for 4 Dec, 2002 & 25 Nov, 2030} cycle also forms part of the Hebrew Torah's Base-7 or 56 solar year Jubilee cycle: D = 7 {0} W = 71 {7} J = 72 {49} K=73 {343} {343-49=294 years [6J] as King David's Creation Reprise} 6,000 years [122J3W1D] = Law @ Sinai {50J} + 12 x 294 years [6J] + pi [3W1D] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html From sligojoeSPAM2@hotmail.com Thu May 15 18:44:55 2003 Well, look at that, Mr. cross posting is back with his crazy number theory to support his personal lifestyle. Really Dolf, it is bad enough that you add additional groups to your replies, but then you don't include the original message (if indeed there ever was an original message and the form of the subject line was nothing more than a thin attempt to deceive. -- Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math "Dolf Boek" wrote in message news:eCAwa.6154$DP4.76456@news-server.bigpond.net.au... From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Thu May 15 18:53:45 2003 The Genesis narrative, which is concerned with Divine order over chaos as Reason particularised by the 7th day {ie. Time} as the 1st Law with its intrinsic relationship to the cosmology and epistemology which it overlays with a genealogy--is empirical! I omitted from my earlier post, the epistlemological hermeneutic on the English language taxonomy as a further example of the language's intrinsic connection with the Torah: A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} Is "Joseph Meehan" perhaps being a little anti-Semitic? - dolf "Joseph Meehan" wrote in message news:bsIwa.34771$BA.13081229@twister.columbus.rr.com... Well, look at that, Mr. cross posting is back with his crazy number theory to support his personal lifestyle. Really Dolf, it is bad enough that you add additional groups to your replies, but then you don't include the original message (if indeed there ever was an original message and the form of the subject line was nothing more than a thin attempt to deceive. -- Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math DOLF NOTE: "An important theological tenet of the Yahad Dead Sea Scroll community was the notion of predestination: from the very beginning, God had foreordained how history would develop, who would inherit eternal life, and who was destined for perdition. The Ages of the World is apparently a full discussion of this notion, proving the idea using examples drawn from the biblical text. In the surviving portions, the example of the ten generations between Shem and Abraham is the centerpiece." [Wise, Abegg & Cook, p 238] "Interpretation concerning the ages which God has made: An age to conclude all that there is and all that will be. Before creating them he determined their operations according to the precise sequence of the ages, one age after another age. And this is engraved on the heavenly tables for the sons of men {cf: A distict theological connotation connected with the genealogical literature known as the Book of Time Divisions in Weeks and Jubilees}, for all the ages of their dominion. THIS IS THE SEQUENCE OF THE SONS OF NOAH, FROM SHEM TO ABRAHAM, UNTIL HE SIRED ISAAC; TEN GENERATIONS." [4Q180 - 4QAges of Creation A Frag 1:1-5; DSS BRILL 199:371] It would appear that the principle Messianic Sabbathical blessing and testimony which is micro-ethically conveyed by the 10 Words (10 Commandments), is also understood to be derived from the 22 generations from Adam {Taken from 4 corners/Earthy; red} to Jacob {He takes by the heel, he supplants/That supplants, undermines; the heel} and especially from the genealogy of Shem {Exhalted Name/Name, renown} [Genesis 11:10] as the 10 generations of sons from Noah {Rest/Repose; consolation; That quavers or totters (Zelophehad's daughter - the shade or tingling of fear)} to Isaac {He laughs}. That is, if I map the genealogy of the Hebrews from Noah to Isaac as 10 Generation as ontology to the cosmological model conveyed by the taxonomy {as epistlemological hermeneutic}, it was historically understood to micro-ethically represent the 10 Commandments (ie # = Tao Te Ching and Psalm of David Referece): For example, if I focus this onto a portion of the Genealogy thusly: NOAH {Rest/ Repose; consolation} 1. Yod/L {[#79 (#26/#30 - Government without Coercion/ Be Chary of War) {26J 5W - FOCUS = Ratio/ Totality of Nature - May 6-10}]} SHEM {Exhalted Name/ Name, renown} 2. Kaf /M {[#77 (#61/#71 - Know-How as a Disease/ The Disease of Knowledge) {EQUITY - May 11-15}]} ARPHAXAD {I shall fail as the breast: he cursed the breast-bottle/ A healer; a releaser} 3. Lamed/N {[#75 (#62/#22 - The Point to Reversal?/ Humility's Increase) {RATIO - May 16-20}] } SHELAH {Sprout/That breaks; that unties; that undresses} 4. Mem/P {[#34 (#65/#63 - Origins in Reversal/ Consider Beginnings) {NATURE contains NATURE - May 21-25 }] } HEBER {The region beyond/ One that passes; anger} 5. Nun/Q {[#32 (#28/#14 - Metaphysical Issues/ Praising the Mysterious) {NATURE rejoices in its NATURE - May 26-31}] } PELEG {Division} / PEREZ {divided} 6. Samek/R {[#30 (#76/#46 - Guiding Contentment/ Moderation of Desire) {NATURE surmounts NATURE - Jun 1-5}] ) SERUG {Branch/ Layer; twining} 7. Ayin/S {[#17 (#30/#39 - Achieving Oneness/ The Root of Order) {NATURE amended in its NATURE - Jun 11-15}]} NAHOR {Snorting/ Hoarse; dry; hot} 8. Pe/T {[#78 (#35/#80 - Primitivist Independence/ Remaining in Isolation) {Act of NATURE - Jun 16-21}]} TERAH {Station, delay, a station of Israel in the wilderness/ To breathe; scent; blow} 9. Tsade/V {[#73 (#51/#31 - Military Strategies as Guides/ Quelling War) {Form of NATURE - Jun 22-26}] } ABRAM {Exalted father} ABRAHAM {Father of a multitude, chief of multitude} 10. Qoph/W {[#80 (#53/#72 - Self-Love/ Holding Oneself Dear)] {40J4W - Engendering NATURE - Jun 27-Jul 1}]} ISAAC {He laughs} 11. Resh/X {[#33 (#36/#23 - The Constancy of Guiding Concepts/ Emptiness & Non-Existence)] {Transforming NATURE - Jul 2-6}]} JACOB - He takes by the heel, he supplants/ That supplants, undermines; the heel 12. Shin/Y { [#28 (#23/#55 - Abstruse Signs/ The Signet of the Mysterious)] {Autonomous NATURE - Jul 7-11}]} JUDAH {the praise of the Lord; confession} 13. Tau/Z { [#35 (#75/#15 - Mastering Guiding Discourse/ The Revealers of Virtue)] {Totality of NATURE - Jul 12-16} ]} "'What will be the dividing of the times? Or when will be the end of the first age and the beginning of the age that follows?' He said to me, 'From Abraham {Father of a multitude, chief of multitude} to Isaac {He laughs}, because from him were born Jacob and Esau {he that acts or finishes}, for Jacob's hand held Esau's heel from the beginning. Now Esau is the end of this age, and Jacob is the beginning of the age that follows. The beginning of a person is the hand, and the end of a person is the heel; seek for nothing else, Ezra {help; court}, between the heel and the hand, Ezra!'" [2 Esdras 6:7-10 (NRSVA)] Actually the New Testament era Christians were Jewish and Gentile proselytes to Judaism. Beyond strident examples of 7th day Sabbath worship given in the New Testament Scriptures in continuing support of the Torah as Oracles of God, there is no actually no evidence of Sunday sacred hymenealism and other forms of occultism being adopted as acceptable by the disciples or the early church--In fact it is rejected. Indeed the view is that the Gentiles had a distinct lack of knowledge of the Law of God and the Jews failed to observe it. The examples which "Gladys Swager" gives as factititious and blasphemous claim to the Christian faith, are insubstantial as the bible and dead sea scrolls cache show a different picture--7th day Sabbath keeping Christians as God's Covenant people being systematically exterminated by Apostate Jews and Gentiles who do not know the law: "Brethren, do not be children in understanding, however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. In the law it is written: 'For with odd speech and mocking tongue these people were scoffing ... THEREFORE THEY WILL BE HANDED OVER TO THE GENTILES WHO DO NOT KNOW THE LAW...' [© Isaiah 28:9-13] And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed..." [1 Corithians 14:20-25] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305140526.7ecb8fbc@posting.google.com... I still can't post from another's post. Dolf, you do not understand the work of Jesus Christ, His death and His resurrection. The Sabbath, Saturday, of the Jewish law was a day of death for Jesus. He, as the Son of God, had taken the sins of the world with Him on the Cross. To show that His sacrifice was acceptable to the triune God of Whom He was the Son together with the Father and the Holy Spirit, He was resurrected on the Sunday, the first day of the New Covenant between God and sinful humans by which through faith in Christ we have a personal relationship with God through the forgiveness of sins. By faith are (we) saved through grace and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. The disciples from then on kept the first day of the week as a special day. That first day of the week of the new covenant matches the first day of creation in Genesis when God said, "Let there be light" and there was light. From the Zondervan Bible Dictionary, The possession of light is one of the most remarkable and valuable blessings of this earthly sphere, without which life as we know it could not exist. Scientific studies of the nature, properties and effects of light have only enhanced its wonders. Its crucial importance for life early led to the worship of the sun, the great source of the worls's light and heat - an idolatry condemned by scripture. Jesus said of Himself that He was the Light of the World. The keeping of the day, however, does not make us Christian. All your postings of pages of statistics are of little importance. You need Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour. "For God so loved to world that He gave His only begotten son, Jesus Christ, so that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish (ie spend Eternity apart from God), but shall have Eternal Life." Gladys SUMMARY OF PREVIOUS CORRESPONDENCE: That you can't subscribe to Moses' 6,000 year cosmology over which he overlays an ontology as genealogy being 60 generations to Jesus of Nazareth, is perhaps consistent with the view that your claim to Christianity is factititious and lacks a credible and wholesome form of autonomy--Instead relying on an artificial and contrived hymeneal morality model that are common amongst Sunday Sabbatarians as anti-nomian, nominal or those who misrepresent themselves as Christian. - dolf "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305121718.5fc1bacb@posting.google.com... I find the Bible an amazing book. Within its pages are records covering 4000 years of the peoples of the middle and eastern Mediterranean area. The first book, Genesis, and about one quarter of the second book, Exodus, were most likely from an oral tradition. That does not mean they are inaccurate as peoples with an oral tradition develop their memories through constant repetition. The amazing fact is that between Adam and Noah there is an overlapping of ages so that most of those persons knew most of the others; and from Noah to Abraham there is an overlapping of ages so that most could have known most of the others. That could keep an oral tradition accurate, especially with peoples who were aware that their forebears had had a special revelation from God. [snipped for context] FURTHER DOLF NOTE: The 10 Commandments as a Kabbalistic/Chronological Conception 1) Nature contains Nature (FOCUS) 2) Nature rejoices in its Nature (EQUITY) 3) Nature surmounts Nature (RATIO) 1 + 2 + 3 = Supernal Triad which acts upon TIME {ie. Kepler's 3 Cosmological Laws} 4) Nature amended in its Nature [Aleph {1+30+80 = 111 /#6}] - Nature contains Nature (#1 - 22/7 as 3W1D - Adam) 5) Act of Nature [Beth {2+10+400 = 412 /#6}] - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#2 - 26J5W - Noah) 6) Form of Nature [Gimel {3+40+30 = 73 /#3}] - Nature surmounts Nature (#3 - 40J4W as Everlasting Covenant [Hebrews 6:13-20]) 7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}] - Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Torah @ Sinai]) 8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}] - Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} + 3(32+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) 9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}] - Form of Nature (#6 - cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of 69th week {72J71W5D} - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE) 10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}] - Engendering Nature (#7 - Telos Topical year/day solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days = 122J3W1D : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6 remaining)) ... 9(92 +1)/2 = 369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} days with center #41 Mem = Thursday, 13 September, 2001 [#41 #41/(#41 - Playing with Reversal; cf: vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0) Hebrew Calendar: {4 x 91 [30+30+31] Quarters (364 days)} + 5 CHAD? 354 day lunar year x 3 years = 1062 + 30 day month = 1092 days as 364 day solar year x 3 = 1092 days : 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 as typical lunar year & 9(92 +1)/2 {52W5D} - 3(32 +1)/2 {2W1D} = 354 as typical lunar year; For example: {353 days} 17 Sept, 2001 + {354 days} 6 Sept, 2002 + ({385 days} 29 Sept, 2000 or {385 days} 26 Sept, 2003) = 1092 days]{v's Jubilee 2000 myth as fraudulent claim to Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church et al}] Thus if the equation Telos {122J3W1D} = Arch {22/7 as 3W1D} + c2 representing the decade sequence, is then further synchronized with a topical solar eclipse occurring leap year cycle: 1997 {Wednesday}, 1998 {Thursday}, 1999 {Friday}, 2000 {Saturday} + Solar Eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days of the Topical {365.242198781} Year. the number of elapsed days is precisely 2,191,453.192686 days and when divisible by 7 gives approximately 5 {HE} days remaining; when divisible by 22 gives the character {KAF} as the 11th remaining, when divisible by 41 gives the remaining value as 3 {GIMEL}, when divisible by 369 gives the remaining value 331 {+38=369}. The Gregorian 400 year calendar is also in effect the elapse of a 7-day cycle within 400 years: 400 x 365.2425 {Approximate length of the topical year} = 146,097 days. However when this historical usage is extended to 6,000 x 365.2425 = 2,191,455 it gives a parallax error of 2 elapsed days. However the elapse of 293 x 365.2425 {solar topical years} = ordinal of 107016 days reflects the 'oth character of the value 294 [6J] years, which when multiplied by {364} = 107016 day cycle [ie. Law @ Sinai in [50J] + 12 x [6J] + [3W1D] = 6,000 years. [Ref: Qumran 364-day Calendar by Phil Smith] The Sun is also 400 times larger than the Moon, it is 400 times farther from the Earth. A direct consequence of this fortuitous geometry is that during a total solar eclipse, the Moon occults the Sun with a nearly perfect fit. [Fred Espenak's 'Fifty Year Canon of Solar Eclipses: 1986-2035' as United States of America's NASA {The Goddard Space Flight Centre, Greenbelt, Maryland} Reference Publication 1178 Revised (July 1987) [ISBN 0-933346-45-X http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/093334645X ] Of particular interest is Australia's 28 year Geodesic Total Solar Eclipses for: 4 December, 2002 {Figure #67 on Page 179} and 25 November, 2030 {Figure #129 on Page 241} Vehuel [241°-245° /Nov 23-27 /Sagittarius /Fire /Vav{6} He{5} Vav{6} = 17 (#3) Latin: Mirabilis Alt: Natahyah {The Cutting of God}] { 1. HELPS FIND PEACE AGAINST TROUBLE 2. GREAT PERSONALITIES {Zerubbabel - offspring of Babylon - [72J] + 3(3²+1)/2 as [2W1D] = 457 BCE ...} 3. HUMILITY} {#6 - Solar eclipse Nov 25, 2030} [#49 (#46/#59 - A Sensible Guide/ Hold Fast To Reason) {Transforming NATURE / Act of NATURE}] {PAWN} Daniel {God is my judge} [246°-250° /Nov 28-Dec 2 /Sagittarius /Fire /Daleth{4} Nun{50} Yod{10} = 64 (#1) Latin: Invacandus Alt: Haayah {Behold God}] { 1. PROTECTS & CONSOLES. INSPIRES IN DECISIONS 2. JUSTICE AND LAWYERS 3. JUDGES} [#2 (#47/#10 - Impossible Advice/ What can Be Done?) {Engendering NATURE / NATURE Amended in its NATURE}] {PAWN} Hahaziah [251°-255° /Dec 3-7 /Sagittarius /Fire /He{5} Heth{8} Shin{300} = 313 (#5) Latin: Salvator Alt: Yarahel {Archery of God}] { 1. HELPS THOSE WHO WISH TO KNOW THE OCCULT MYSTERIES 2. CHEMISTRY {#8 - Solar eclipse Wed Dec 4, 2002 + 28 years} 3. THE ABSTRACT SCIENCES} [#9 (#31/#51 - Natural Guides and Natural Virtuosity/ Nursing Virtue) {Form of NATURE / NATURE Surmounts NATURE}] {PAWN} This 28 day/year {viz Australia's Geodesic Solar Eclipses for 4 Dec, 2002 & 25 Nov, 2030} cycle also forms part of the Hebrew Torah's Base-7 or 56 solar year Jubilee cycle: D = 7 {0} W = 71 {7} J = 72 {49} K=73 {343} {343-49=294 years [6J] as King David's Creation Reprise} 6,000 years [122J3W1D] = Law @ Sinai {50J} + 12 x 294 years [6J] + pi [3W1D] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed May 21 10:14:56 2003 Gladys, You haven't yet answered my previous correspondence, which suggests that your own Roman Catholic originating, hymeneal and occult mysitical claim to Christianity is without merit and that your continued unreasoned, irrational and quasi-religious values based adverse references to homosexuality upon which you build your current religious/political/judicial Institutioanl imperatives, are slanderous and persecutionary charactisations upon another's autonomy and therefore un-Constitutional. As an institutional practice, this conduct needs to be distinguished from Germany's 3rd Reich as the 4 Nuremberg 'gender and sexuality identity' laws perpetuated against 7th day Sabbath keeping Jews-being the impetus from whence my parents, who raised me as a '7th day Sabbath keeper', emigrated from post-world war II Europe and came to Australia in 1949 to escape. As I am by practice a Seventh-day Sabbath keeper, being a Western (ie. occidential) Christian, American originating community of faith and unique amongst Christian organizations. In that by 1901, when not then having a church manual as creed or discipline, were responsible for obtaining the religious freedoms and autonomy as expressed within our Australian Constitution, following the unjustified persecution by Sunday Sabbatarians--William and Henry Firth as Seventh-day Adventists had been sentenced to the stocks in Paramatta on 22 April 1894. They had been prosecuted by the New South Wales Council of Churches for working on Sunday. If you could refrain from any further religious and human rights abuses and simply answer the claim there is no credibility to your profession to Christianity--IT IS BEYOND SPEECH GIVEN TO AN AFFECTION, AN APPETITE OR SENSUALISM, A LIE! I've included our previous correspondence which remains unanswered. - dolf "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305201552.6ae96b98@posting.google.com... God-blaming will not solve your problem. Yes, we can ask God "WHY????" The apostle Paul asked God, 'Why?' and the answer he received from God (Jesus) was "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2 Corinthians 12 : 9. What was the reason for Paul's prayer is not given in the New Testament. I have been reading from some websites on the topic of Homosexuality. It could be that homosexuality is practised by very few and that most are bisexual. Not being a therapist in this area I am making a guess that there could be a choice to forego the homosexual and adopt only the heterosexual lifestyle. In the circumstances it may be very difficult to adopt a celibate lifestyle. Difficulties happen to us all in life, at some stage. We have a choice to work through them or not. It is up to us. Years ago someone told me that God is a Genleman. He won't force Himself on us. That is shown in Holman Hunt's painting of Christ standing at the door which represents Christ standing at the door of our hearts. In the painting the handle of the door is on the inside signifying the person inside - ourselves - has to open the door. It can't be opened from the outside. [snipped for context] DOLF NOTE: Ralph McInerny as Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University, is erroeneous and ignorant of Hebrew/Gentile 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping as the basis for metaphysical, regulative philosophical and occidental Christianity, when he says "This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology." A Treatise by Protestant Samuele Bacchiocchi was previously awarded the Papal Gregorian Gold Medal, as opinion on the subject of the history and continuing relevance of 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping. As the basis of a natural and everlasting covenant experience with God (YAHWEH), who by such attribution of Nature, is particularised within the Torah and New Testament as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer . In point of fact, no aspect of Catholic Religious Dogma retains any fidelity to principles of regulative philosophy and the metaphysical principles of the Hebrew's Torah (as is evidence by 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping Hebrew/Christians within the New Testament era)-- For this reason, the Catholic diplomatic and Vatican State representative within Australia, Archbishop George Pell will be continue to be pursued for religious slander, and treasonable violation of human and Consitutional Rights. The natural and regulative philosophical/ metaphysical model conveyed by my WWW-page and over which I have exclusive copyright, transcends, sub-ordinates and obsoletes similar claims made by the Roman Papal Authority below. My own work-in-progress as philosophical investigations and discovery of this empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive model as a mathematical {9(9²+1)/2 (369 days) - 3(3²+1)/2 (15 days) = 354 days of typical lunar cycle} & chronological {Telos (6,000 years as 122J3W1D) = Arch (0) + c²} a priori {eg: Tao}. It is established upon the autonomous, regulative philosophical and systematic theological principles espoused by the Letters Patent to the Australian Constitution of 1901 and by specific inclusion Section 116 as the Constitutions religious clause. To convey the exceptional character of this jurisprudent and ethical model for the administration of governance without coercion, I previously quoted Paul Tillich view that, Attempts to elaborate [such] a theology as an empirical-inductive or a meta-physical deductive science, or as a combination of both, have given ample evidence that no such attempt [has in the past] succeed[ed]. In every [other] assumedly scientific theology, there is a point where individual experience, traditional valuation, and personal commitment must decide the issue. This point is often hidden to the authors of such theologies, is obvious to those who look at them with other experiences and other commitments. [Paul Tillich, 1951 University of Chicago, 'Systematic Theology - Reason & Revelation, Being and God'] The following epistemological hermeneutic on the 22 letter Hebrew/26 (21 + 5 Vowel) English language taxonomy {non-Chaldean (and Non-Roman Catholic as Latin only had 23 letters) astrological symbolism} is a further example of the English language's intrinsic connection with these Torah & Hebrew language originating chronological metaphysical/regulative principles that equally gave rise to the Pythagorean Theory of Number: A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} [Ref: Enclosed Folio entitled: The Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles which underpin the Letters Patent to Australia's Constitution http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html ] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ ROME, MAY 19, 2003 (Zenit.org) .- In an age of skepticism, philosophy is often viewed with a suspicious eye by people of religious faith. However, philosophy has always been an integral part of the life of the Church as outlined by John Paul II in his encyclical " Fides et Ratio ." Ralph McInerny is using his appointment as the Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University to discuss the branch of philosophy that searches for God, known as natural theology. He recently shared his thoughts with ZENIT on this topic. McInerny is a professor of philosophy at the University of Notre Dame. He will present a public lecture at the Gregorian on May 23 entitled, "From Shadows and Images to the Truth." Q: What is natural theology? In other words, explain what it means that it is an article of faith that God can be known by reason apart from faith. McInerny: It is, by another name, philosophical theology; that is, the knowledge of God that can be attained from common human experience of the world, without dependence on religious faith. Plato, and especially Aristotle, in pre-Christian times, carried the theology of the philosophers to heights which are still cause for marvel. The whole point of classical philosophy -- the love of wisdom -- was to attain such knowledge of God as is possible for the human mind. It is in contemplating God that the most perfect happiness is found. So natural theology is not just a special set of topics, but the key to philosophy. The Catholic tradition sees in Romans 1:19-20 the scriptural basis for what was defined by Vatican I, namely, that it is "de fide" that God can be known by natural powers of man unaided by faith. Q: Does natural theology aim to prove the existence of God? McInerny: That is the first step, of course, and proving the existence of God is no easy matter. There is a garden-variety certainty that most people have that the universe is governed by its Maker and that we are answerable to him. Philosophical proofs seek to make it logically inescapable that God, the first cause of all else, exists. But what is he like? The attributes of God, efforts to describe him, are the next step. He is intelligent, good, the source of order, our ultimate end, etc. Q: Why is it important to distinguish between natural theology and religious faith? McInerny: Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else. Natural theology is an achievement; faith is a gift. To demand that the mysteries of faith be proved in the usual way, is the beginning of the loss of faith. Q: Why is natural theology important for understanding Catholic doctrine? McInerny: As the Holy Father reminded us in "Fides et Ratio," our faith is reasonable. There is a complementarity between faith and reason, each needs the other. One of the uses of natural theology is precisely to show that it is reasonable to accept truths about God we cannot in this life comprehend. St. Thomas Aquinas observed that the truths about God that philosophers establish are part of what has been revealed, embedded in them, as it were. You cannot believe that God is three persons in one nature without accepting that God exists. Most of us accept revelation as a whole from our mother's knee without distinguishing between the mysteries it conveys and the truths about God that can be known, in the usual sense of know, such as that he is, that he is one, maker of all, etc. Thomas called these knowable truths included in revelation "preambles of faith." If some of the truths God has revealed about himself can be known in the usual sense of know, then it is reasonable to accept the others as intelligible in themselves, however obscure to us in this life. This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology. Q: Why do the claims of natural theology seem to contradict what we know about God from the Bible? How is this problem overcome? McInerny: The rule is that there cannot be a real conflict between faith and reason. Both have their source in God who does not contradict himself. If there really is a conflict -- a contradiction -- between a rational claim and the faith, the rational claim must be false, or not as strong a claim as it purports to be, perhaps only a theory. Sometimes a deeper understanding of Revelation and Scripture has been prompted by difficulties arising from reason, so it is to a degree a two-way street. In the Middle Ages the so-called errors of Aristotle provided Thomas Aquinas with opportunities to exhibit how supple the interaction of reason and faith often is. Aristotle thought the world is eternal, which conflicts with Genesis. Aristotle is wrong here, but Thomas observes that there is no philosophical way to disprove the eternity of the world. Thus, Aristotle's view was false -- as we know from Scripture -- but is nonetheless a plausible philosophical opinion. Not everything that conflicts with the faith can be disproved. Q: Why is there such strong resistance among both theologians and believers in general to the "God of the philosophers"? McInerny: There are many reasons for this, most of them bad. Pascal seemed to think the God of the philosophers was somehow numerically different from the God of Abraham and Isaac. Sometimes I suspect people are put off by the secularizing and skeptical character of much mainstream philosophy. St. Paul warned us not to be misled by philosophy. Kierkegaard, in the 19th century, sought to protect the faith from Kantian and Hegelian efforts to turn it into a philosophical project that would yield its truth to German philosophy professors. Unfortunately, he included natural theology in what he would protect from such presumption. Q: How does natural theology account for and understand atheism? McInerny: In "Gaudium et Spes," we have a remarkable little treatise on atheism and its many sources, most of which are moral. What could be more tragic than for a human being to be cut off from God, to deny his maker? The fathers of the [Second Vatican] Council saw contemporary atheism as a chief obstacle to evangelization. Natural theology gives only indirect comfort to the heart wounded by injustice and misfortune. Unless the pursuit of reason is complemented by the pursuit of virtue it can become a snare and delusion. Our natural theology tradition goes hand in hand with the realization that without the support of religious faith even natural truths becomes obscured and lost. The motivation for natural theology is to be found in the faith itself, as the reference to Romans and Vatican I makes clear. Any suggestion that acceptance of the mysteries of faith is akin to belief in the Great Pumpkin must be thoroughly rejected. Faith has as its object the first truth who is God and its truths, again, cannot be in conflict with truths gained by natural reason. It is noteworthy that in "Fides et Ratio," the Holy Father comes to the defense of reason at a time when many, many philosophers have lost confidence in our ability to attain the truth. The epistemological turn taken by Descartes continues to cut the human mind off from reality. Philosophy becomes interpretation, a subjective account of our experience, unable to reach an objective basis in the things that are. This is why the Thomistic revival inaugurated by Leo XIII remains of vital importance. Q: Does the natural law require the existence of God for its claims to be valid? McInerny: One must distinguish between the content of natural law -- common moral truths -- and the theoretical account of such knowledge. The latter makes reference to God explicitly but this may be only implicit in the ordinary recognition of right and wrong. A philosophy without theism, without natural theology, can never give an adequate account of morality. Natural theology and natural law provide a lingua franca in which believer and nonbeliever can communicate. That is why the Church is such a champion of both. [Courtesy: 19 May, 2003 -- Ralph McInerny on the Importance of Natural Theology, "Faith and the God of the Philosophers", Zenit Catholic News Agency, http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=35786 ] PREVIOUS CORRESPONDENCE: "An important theological tenet of the Yahad Dead Sea Scroll community was the notion of predestination: from the very beginning, God had foreordained how history would develop, who would inherit eternal life, and who was destined for perdition. The Ages of the World is apparently a full discussion of this notion, proving the idea using examples drawn from the biblical text. In the surviving portions, the example of the ten generations between Shem and Abraham is the centerpiece." [Wise, Abegg & Cook, p 238] "Interpretation concerning the ages which God has made: An age to conclude all that there is and all that will be. Before creating them he determined their operations according to the precise sequence of the ages, one age after another age. And this is engraved on the heavenly tables for the sons of men {cf: A distict theological connotation connected with the genealogical literature known as the Book of Time Divisions in Weeks and Jubilees}, for all the ages of their dominion. THIS IS THE SEQUENCE OF THE SONS OF NOAH, FROM SHEM TO ABRAHAM, UNTIL HE SIRED ISAAC; TEN GENERATIONS." [4Q180 - 4QAges of Creation A Frag 1:1-5; DSS BRILL 199:371] It would appear that the principle Messianic Sabbathical blessing and testimony which is micro-ethically conveyed by the 10 Words (10 Commandments), is also understood to be derived from the 22 generations from Adam {Taken from 4 corners/Earthy; red} to Jacob {He takes by the heel, he supplants/That supplants, undermines; the heel} and especially from the genealogy of Shem {Exhalted Name/Name, renown} [Genesis 11:10] as the 10 generations of sons from Noah {Rest/Repose; consolation; That quavers or totters (Zelophehad's daughter - the shade or tingling of fear)} to Isaac {He laughs}. That is, if I map the genealogy of the Hebrews from Noah to Isaac as 10 Generation as ontology to the cosmological model conveyed by the taxonomy {as epistlemological hermeneutic}, it was historically understood to micro-ethically represent the 10 Commandments (ie # = Tao Te Ching and Psalm of David Referece): For example, if I focus this onto a portion of the Genealogy thusly: NOAH {Rest/ Repose; consolation} 1. Yod/L {[#79 (#26/#30 - Government without Coercion/ Be Chary of War) {26J 5W - FOCUS = Ratio/ Totality of Nature - May 6-10}]} SHEM {Exhalted Name/ Name, renown} 2. Kaf /M {[#77 (#61/#71 - Know-How as a Disease/ The Disease of Knowledge) {EQUITY - May 11-15}]} ARPHAXAD {I shall fail as the breast: he cursed the breast-bottle/ A healer; a releaser} 3. Lamed/N {[#75 (#62/#22 - The Point to Reversal?/ Humility's Increase) {RATIO - May 16-20}] } SHELAH {Sprout/That breaks; that unties; that undresses} 4. Mem/P {[#34 (#65/#63 - Origins in Reversal/ Consider Beginnings) {NATURE contains NATURE - May 21-25 }] } HEBER {The region beyond/ One that passes; anger} 5. Nun/Q {[#32 (#28/#14 - Metaphysical Issues/ Praising the Mysterious) {NATURE rejoices in its NATURE - May 26-31}] } PELEG {Division} / PEREZ {divided} 6. Samek/R {[#30 (#76/#46 - Guiding Contentment/ Moderation of Desire) {NATURE surmounts NATURE - Jun 1-5}] ) SERUG {Branch/ Layer; twining} 7. Ayin/S {[#17 (#30/#39 - Achieving Oneness/ The Root of Order) {NATURE amended in its NATURE - Jun 11-15}]} NAHOR {Snorting/ Hoarse; dry; hot} 8. Pe/T {[#78 (#35/#80 - Primitivist Independence/ Remaining in Isolation) {Act of NATURE - Jun 16-21}]} TERAH {Station, delay, a station of Israel in the wilderness/ To breathe; scent; blow} 9. Tsade/V {[#73 (#51/#31 - Military Strategies as Guides/ Quelling War) {Form of NATURE - Jun 22-26}] } ABRAM {Exalted father} ABRAHAM {Father of a multitude, chief of multitude} 10. Qoph/W {[#80 (#53/#72 - Self-Love/ Holding Oneself Dear)] {40J4W - Engendering NATURE - Jun 27-Jul 1}]} ISAAC {He laughs} 11. Resh/X {[#33 (#36/#23 - The Constancy of Guiding Concepts/ Emptiness & Non-Existence)] {Transforming NATURE - Jul 2-6}]} JACOB - He takes by the heel, he supplants/ That supplants, undermines; the heel 12. Shin/Y { [#28 (#23/#55 - Abstruse Signs/ The Signet of the Mysterious)] {Autonomous NATURE - Jul 7-11}]} JUDAH {the praise of the Lord; confession} 13. Tau/Z { [#35 (#75/#15 - Mastering Guiding Discourse/ The Revealers of Virtue)] {Totality of NATURE - Jul 12-16} ]} The Genesis narrative, which is concerned with Divine order over chaos as Reason particularised by the 7th day {ie. Time} as the 1st Law with its intrinsic relationship to the cosmology and epistemology which it overlays with a genealogy--is empirical! A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} "'What will be the dividing of the times? Or when will be the end of the first age and the beginning of the age that follows?' He said to me, 'From Abraham {Father of a multitude, chief of multitude} to Isaac {He laughs}, because from him were born Jacob and Esau {he that acts or finishes}, for Jacob's hand held Esau's heel from the beginning. Now Esau is the end of this age, and Jacob is the beginning of the age that follows. The beginning of a person is the hand, and the end of a person is the heel; seek for nothing else, Ezra {help; court}, between the heel and the hand, Ezra!'" [2 Esdras 6:7-10 (NRSVA)] Actually the New Testament era Christians were Jewish and Gentile proselytes to Judaism. Beyond strident examples of 7th day Sabbath worship given in the New Testament Scriptures in continuing support of the Torah as Oracles of God, there is no actually no evidence of Sunday sacred hymenealism and other forms of occultism being adopted as acceptable by the disciples or the early church--In fact it is rejected. Indeed the view is that the Gentiles had a distinct lack of knowledge of the Law of God and the Jews failed to observe it. The examples which "Gladys Swager" gives as factititious and blasphemous claim to the Christian faith, are insubstantial as the bible and dead sea scrolls cache show a different picture--7th day Sabbath keeping Christians as God's Covenant people being systematically exterminated by Apostate Jews and Gentiles who do not know the law: "Brethren, do not be children in understanding, however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. In the law it is written: 'For with odd speech and mocking tongue these people were scoffing ... THEREFORE THEY WILL BE HANDED OVER TO THE GENTILES WHO DO NOT KNOW THE LAW...' [© Isaiah 28:9-13] And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed..." [1 Corithians 14:20-25] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305140526.7ecb8fbc@posting.google.com... I still can't post from another's post. Dolf, you do not understand the work of Jesus Christ, His death and His resurrection. The Sabbath, Saturday, of the Jewish law was a day of death for Jesus. He, as the Son of God, had taken the sins of the world with Him on the Cross. To show that His sacrifice was acceptable to the triune God of Whom He was the Son together with the Father and the Holy Spirit, He was resurrected on the Sunday, the first day of the New Covenant between God and sinful humans by which through faith in Christ we have a personal relationship with God through the forgiveness of sins. By faith are (we) saved through grace and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. The disciples from then on kept the first day of the week as a special day. That first day of the week of the new covenant matches the first day of creation in Genesis when God said, "Let there be light" and there was light. From the Zondervan Bible Dictionary, The possession of light is one of the most remarkable and valuable blessings of this earthly sphere, without which life as we know it could not exist. Scientific studies of the nature, properties and effects of light have only enhanced its wonders. Its crucial importance for life early led to the worship of the sun, the great source of the worls's light and heat - an idolatry condemned by scripture. Jesus said of Himself that He was the Light of the World. The keeping of the day, however, does not make us Christian. All your postings of pages of statistics are of little importance. You need Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour. "For God so loved to world that He gave His only begotten son, Jesus Christ, so that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish (ie spend Eternity apart from God), but shall have Eternal Life." Gladys SUMMARY OF PREVIOUS CORRESPONDENCE: That you can't subscribe to Moses' 6,000 year cosmology over which he overlays an ontology as genealogy being 60 generations to Jesus of Nazareth, is perhaps consistent with the view that your claim to Christianity is factititious and lacks a credible and wholesome form of autonomy--Instead relying on an artificial and contrived hymeneal morality model that are common amongst Sunday Sabbatarians as anti-nomian, nominal or those who misrepresent themselves as Christian. - dolf "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305121718.5fc1bacb@posting.google.com... I find the Bible an amazing book. Within its pages are records covering 4000 years of the peoples of the middle and eastern Mediterranean area. The first book, Genesis, and about one quarter of the second book, Exodus, were most likely from an oral tradition. That does not mean they are inaccurate as peoples with an oral tradition develop their memories through constant repetition. The amazing fact is that between Adam and Noah there is an overlapping of ages so that most of those persons knew most of the others; and from Noah to Abraham there is an overlapping of ages so that most could have known most of the others. That could keep an oral tradition accurate, especially with peoples who were aware that their forebears had had a special revelation from God. [snipped for context] FURTHER DOLF NOTE: The 10 Commandments as a Kabbalistic/Chronological Conception 1) Nature contains Nature (FOCUS) 2) Nature rejoices in its Nature (EQUITY) 3) Nature surmounts Nature (RATIO) 1 + 2 + 3 = Supernal Triad which acts upon TIME {ie. Kepler's 3 Cosmological Laws} 4) Nature amended in its Nature [Aleph {1+30+80 = 111 /#6}] - Nature contains Nature (#1 - 22/7 as 3W1D - Adam) 5) Act of Nature [Beth {2+10+400 = 412 /#6}] - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#2 - 26J5W - Noah) 6) Form of Nature [Gimel {3+40+30 = 73 /#3}] - Nature surmounts Nature (#3 - 40J4W as Everlasting Covenant [Hebrews 6:13-20]) 7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}] - Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Torah @ Sinai]) 8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}] - Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} + 3(32+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) 9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}] - Form of Nature (#6 - cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of 69th week {72J71W5D} - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE) 10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}] - Engendering Nature (#7 - Telos Topical year/day solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days = 122J3W1D : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6 remaining)) ... 9(92 +1)/2 = 369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} days with center #41 Mem = Thursday, 13 September, 2001 [#41 #41/(#41 - Playing with Reversal; cf: vKabbalah JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0) Hebrew Calendar: {4 x 91 [30+30+31] Quarters (364 days)} + 5 CHAD? 354 day lunar year x 3 years = 1062 + 30 day month = 1092 days as 364 day solar year x 3 = 1092 days : 1092 / 369 = 2 x 369 + 354 as typical lunar year & 9(92 +1)/2 {52W5D} - 3(32 +1)/2 {2W1D} = 354 as typical lunar year; For example: {353 days} 17 Sept, 2001 + {354 days} 6 Sept, 2002 + ({385 days} 29 Sept, 2000 or {385 days} 26 Sept, 2003) = 1092 days]{v's Jubilee 2000 myth as fraudulent claim to Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church et al}] Thus if the equation Telos {122J3W1D} = Arch {22/7 as 3W1D} + c2 representing the decade sequence, is then further synchronized with a topical solar eclipse occurring leap year cycle: 1997 {Wednesday}, 1998 {Thursday}, 1999 {Friday}, 2000 {Saturday} + Solar Eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6 days of the Topical {365.242198781} Year. the number of elapsed days is precisely 2,191,453.192686 days and when divisible by 7 gives approximately 5 {HE} days remaining; when divisible by 22 gives the character {KAF} as the 11th remaining, when divisible by 41 gives the remaining value as 3 {GIMEL}, when divisible by 369 gives the remaining value 331 {+38=369}. The Gregorian 400 year calendar is also in effect the elapse of a 7-day cycle within 400 years: 400 x 365.2425 {Approximate length of the topical year} = 146,097 days. However when this historical usage is extended to 6,000 x 365.2425 = 2,191,455 it gives a parallax error of 2 elapsed days. However the elapse of 293 x 365.2425 {solar topical years} = ordinal of 107016 days reflects the 'oth character of the value 294 [6J] years, which when multiplied by {364} = 107016 day cycle [ie. Law @ Sinai in [50J] + 12 x [6J] + [3W1D] = 6,000 years. [Ref: Qumran 364-day Calendar by Phil Smith] The Sun is also 400 times larger than the Moon, it is 400 times farther from the Earth. A direct consequence of this fortuitous geometry is that during a total solar eclipse, the Moon occults the Sun with a nearly perfect fit. [Fred Espenak's 'Fifty Year Canon of Solar Eclipses: 1986-2035' as United States of America's NASA {The Goddard Space Flight Centre, Greenbelt, Maryland} Reference Publication 1178 Revised (July 1987) [ISBN 0-933346-45-X http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/093334645X ] Of particular interest is Australia's 28 year Geodesic Total Solar Eclipses for: 4 December, 2002 {Figure #67 on Page 179} and 25 November, 2030 {Figure #129 on Page 241} Vehuel [241°-245° /Nov 23-27 /Sagittarius /Fire /Vav{6} He{5} Vav{6} = 17 (#3) Latin: Mirabilis Alt: Natahyah {The Cutting of God}] { 1. HELPS FIND PEACE AGAINST TROUBLE 2. GREAT PERSONALITIES {Zerubbabel - offspring of Babylon - [72J] + 3(3²+1)/2 as [2W1D] = 457 BCE ...} 3. HUMILITY} {#6 - Solar eclipse Nov 25, 2030} [#49 (#46/#59 - A Sensible Guide/ Hold Fast To Reason) {Transforming NATURE / Act of NATURE}] {PAWN} Daniel {God is my judge} [246°-250° /Nov 28-Dec 2 /Sagittarius /Fire /Daleth{4} Nun{50} Yod{10} = 64 (#1) Latin: Invacandus Alt: Haayah {Behold God}] { 1. PROTECTS & CONSOLES. INSPIRES IN DECISIONS 2. JUSTICE AND LAWYERS 3. JUDGES} [#2 (#47/#10 - Impossible Advice/ What can Be Done?) {Engendering NATURE / NATURE Amended in its NATURE}] {PAWN} Hahaziah [251°-255° /Dec 3-7 /Sagittarius /Fire /He{5} Heth{8} Shin{300} = 313 (#5) Latin: Salvator Alt: Yarahel {Archery of God}] { 1. HELPS THOSE WHO WISH TO KNOW THE OCCULT MYSTERIES 2. CHEMISTRY {#8 - Solar eclipse Wed Dec 4, 2002 + 28 years} 3. THE ABSTRACT SCIENCES} [#9 (#31/#51 - Natural Guides and Natural Virtuosity/ Nursing Virtue) {Form of NATURE / NATURE Surmounts NATURE}] {PAWN} This 28 day/year {viz Australia's Geodesic Solar Eclipses for 4 Dec, 2002 & 25 Nov, 2030} cycle also forms part of the Hebrew Torah's Base-7 or 56 solar year Jubilee cycle: D = 7 {0} W = 71 {7} J = 72 {49} K=73 {343} {343-49=294 years [6J] as King David's Creation Reprise} 6,000 years [122J3W1D] = Law @ Sinai {50J} + 12 x 294 years [6J] + pi [3W1D] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Fri May 23 21:34:59 2003 For example, if we actually know for certain that we've had a eucharistic biscuit, P(H|D) becomes our degree of belief in the Hypothesis known as Faith: "The rule is that there cannot be a real conflict between faith and reason. Both have their source in God who does not contradict himself. If there really is a conflict -- a contradiction -- between a rational claim and the faith, the rational claim must be false, or not as strong a claim as it purports to be, perhaps only a theory." [McInerny] "Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else." [McInerny] - dolf "H9" wrote in message news:3ece0013$0$26601$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... Your calculation is wrong Dolf. I get a divide by zero error. "Dean Turner" wrote in message news:3ecc9664$0$17054$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... Religion is the drug to keep the people in line, anyone who doesn't realise this is a moron or simple!!! DOLF NOTE: For evidence of Protestantism's contributions to the pursuit of natural theology, one needs look no further than Bayesian Theory. If (H) denotes an Hypothesis and (D) denotes Data-event, the Bayesian theorem states that: P(H|D) = P(D|H) x P(H) / P(D) If we actually know for certain that Data-event (D) as occurred, P(H|D) becomes our actual degree of belief in the Hypothesis (H). I'm currently tinkering with the idea of a metaphysical project regarding the development a prototype JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0 for Windows (and Safari for Macintosh), which I hope demonstrates use of the vMeme/Moment Mathematical/Chronological Kabbalistic model as the underlying epistemological hermeneutic [See related URL as opinion on Letters Patent/Constitution http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html ] and paradigm for a Bayesian (Belief Systems) derived reasoning and decision making model (ie. Grapple as a vMeme/Kabbalistic Framework). Jose Bernardo & Adrian Smith treatise on 'Bayesian Theory' [ISBN 0-471-92416-4] describes Bayesian Statistics as offering a rationalistic theory of personalistics beliefs in contexts of uncertainty, with the central aim of characterising how an individual should act in order to achieve certain kinds of desirable behavioural outcome. The theory establishes that expected utility maximisation as axiomatic approaches to quantifying uncertainty, provides the basis for rational decision making. I imagine that the vMeme/Moment Mathematical/Chronological Kabbalistic model may be considered as a virtual universe or lens by which events are viewed as occurring within a definite time space. Where the probability P of some event E (denoted P(E)) is defined with respect to a "universe" {ie. an implied chronological universe: Telos (122J3W1D as 6,000) = Arch (0) + c²} in the case where the sample space is finite or countably infinite, a probability function can also be defined by its values on the elementary events {e1},{e2},... where S = {e1,e2,...} as a sample space S of all possible elementary events {ie. hemi-sphere sampled chronological universe of action: 3(3²+1)/2 (15 days) ... 9(9²+1/2 = (396 days)} in such a way that P must satisfy any probability axioms as rules of coherence and quantification (viz. Jose Bernardo & Adrian Smith), any implied epistemological hermeneutic usage given by language and number as the Kabbalistic empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive paradigm, in addition to the Kolmogorov probability axioms: AXIOM #1 : 0 <= P(E) <= 1 AXIOM #2 : P(S) = 1 AXIOM #3 : SUM P(Ei) = P(E1 U E2 U...) Bayes' theorem on probability was originally formulated by Thomas Bayes (c. 1702-April 7,1761), a British mathematician and Presbyterian minister. Being published posthumously as "Essay Towards Solving a Problem in the Doctrine of Chances" within the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London of 1763. To grasp the metaphysical intention of such mathematical/philosophical conceptions of Bayesian Theory, it is prudent to consider his other two works published within his lifetime, namely: "Divine Benevolence, or an Attempt to Prove That the Principal End of the Divine Providence and Government is the Happiness of His Creatures (1731 )", and "An Introduction to the Doctrine of Fluxions, and a Defence of the Mathematicians Against the Objections of the Author of the Analyst, in which he defended Isaac Newton's foundations of calculus (1736)". Ralph McInerny as Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University, is erroeneous and ignorant of Hebrew/Gentile 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping as the basis for metaphysical, regulative philosophical and occidental Christianity, when he says "This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology." A Treatise by Protestant Samuele Bacchiocchi was previously awarded the Papal Gregorian Gold Medal, as opinion on the subject of the history and continuing relevance of 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping. As the basis of a natural and everlasting covenant experience with God (YAHWEH), who by such attribution of Nature, is particularised within the Torah and New Testament as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer . In point of fact, no aspect of Catholic Religious Dogma retains any fidelity to principles of regulative philosophy and the metaphysical principles of the Hebrew's Torah (as is evidence by 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping Hebrew/Christians within the New Testament era)-- For this reason, the Catholic diplomatic and Vatican State representative within Australia, Archbishop George Pell will be continue to be pursued for religious slander, and treasonable violation of human and Consitutional Rights. The natural and regulative philosophical/ metaphysical model conveyed by my WWW-page and over which I have exclusive copyright, transcends, sub-ordinates and obsoletes similar claims made by the Roman Papal Authority below. My own work-in-progress as philosophical investigations and discovery of this empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive model as a mathematical {9(9²+1)/2 (369 days) - 3(3²+1)/2 (15 days) = 354 days of typical lunar cycle} & chronological {Telos (6,000 years as 122J3W1D) = Arch (0) + c²} a priori {eg: Tao}. It is established upon the autonomous, regulative philosophical and systematic theological principles espoused by the Letters Patent to the Australian Constitution of 1901 and by specific inclusion Section 116 as the Constitutions religious clause. To convey the exceptional character of this jurisprudent and ethical model for the administration of governance without coercion, I previously quoted Paul Tillich view that, Attempts to elaborate [such] a theology as an empirical-inductive or a meta-physical deductive science, or as a combination of both, have given ample evidence that no such attempt [has in the past] succeed[ed]. In every [other] assumedly scientific theology, there is a point where individual experience, traditional valuation, and personal commitment must decide the issue. This point is often hidden to the authors of such theologies, is obvious to those who look at them with other experiences and other commitments. [Paul Tillich, 1951 University of Chicago, 'Systematic Theology - Reason & Revelation, Being and God'] The following epistemological hermeneutic on the 22 letter Hebrew/26 (21 + 5 Vowel) English language taxonomy {non-Chaldean (and Non-Roman Catholic as Latin only had 23 letters) astrological symbolism} is a further example of the English language's intrinsic connection with these Torah & Hebrew language originating chronological metaphysical/regulative principles that equally gave rise to the Pythagorean Theory of Number: A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} [Ref: Enclosed Folio entitled: The Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles which underpin the Letters Patent to Australia's Constitution http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html ] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ ROME, MAY 19, 2003 (Zenit.org) .- In an age of skepticism, philosophy is often viewed with a suspicious eye by people of religious faith. However, philosophy has always been an integral part of the life of the Church as outlined by John Paul II in his encyclical " Fides et Ratio ." Ralph McInerny is using his appointment as the Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University to discuss the branch of philosophy that searches for God, known as natural theology. He recently shared his thoughts with ZENIT on this topic. McInerny is a professor of philosophy at the University of Notre Dame. He will present a public lecture at the Gregorian on May 23 entitled, "From Shadows and Images to the Truth." Q: What is natural theology? In other words, explain what it means that it is an article of faith that God can be known by reason apart from faith. McInerny: It is, by another name, philosophical theology; that is, the knowledge of God that can be attained from common human experience of the world, without dependence on religious faith. Plato, and especially Aristotle, in pre-Christian times, carried the theology of the philosophers to heights which are still cause for marvel. The whole point of classical philosophy -- the love of wisdom -- was to attain such knowledge of God as is possible for the human mind. It is in contemplating God that the most perfect happiness is found. So natural theology is not just a special set of topics, but the key to philosophy. The Catholic tradition sees in Romans 1:19-20 the scriptural basis for what was defined by Vatican I, namely, that it is "de fide" that God can be known by natural powers of man unaided by faith. Q: Does natural theology aim to prove the existence of God? McInerny: That is the first step, of course, and proving the existence of God is no easy matter. There is a garden-variety certainty that most people have that the universe is governed by its Maker and that we are answerable to him. Philosophical proofs seek to make it logically inescapable that God, the first cause of all else, exists. But what is he like? The attributes of God, efforts to describe him, are the next step. He is intelligent, good, the source of order, our ultimate end, etc. Q: Why is it important to distinguish between natural theology and religious faith? McInerny: Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else. Natural theology is an achievement; faith is a gift. To demand that the mysteries of faith be proved in the usual way, is the beginning of the loss of faith. Q: Why is natural theology important for understanding Catholic doctrine? McInerny: As the Holy Father reminded us in "Fides et Ratio," our faith is reasonable. There is a complementarity between faith and reason, each needs the other. One of the uses of natural theology is precisely to show that it is reasonable to accept truths about God we cannot in this life comprehend. St. Thomas Aquinas observed that the truths about God that philosophers establish are part of what has been revealed, embedded in them, as it were. You cannot believe that God is three persons in one nature without accepting that God exists. Most of us accept revelation as a whole from our mother's knee without distinguishing between the mysteries it conveys and the truths about God that can be known, in the usual sense of know, such as that he is, that he is one, maker of all, etc. Thomas called these knowable truths included in revelation "preambles of faith." If some of the truths God has revealed about himself can be known in the usual sense of know, then it is reasonable to accept the others as intelligible in themselves, however obscure to us in this life. This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology. Q: Why do the claims of natural theology seem to contradict what we know about God from the Bible? How is this problem overcome? McInerny: The rule is that there cannot be a real conflict between faith and reason. Both have their source in God who does not contradict himself. If there really is a conflict -- a contradiction -- between a rational claim and the faith, the rational claim must be false, or not as strong a claim as it purports to be, perhaps only a theory. Sometimes a deeper understanding of Revelation and Scripture has been prompted by difficulties arising from reason, so it is to a degree a two-way street. In the Middle Ages the so-called errors of Aristotle provided Thomas Aquinas with opportunities to exhibit how supple the interaction of reason and faith often is. Aristotle thought the world is eternal, which conflicts with Genesis. Aristotle is wrong here, but Thomas observes that there is no philosophical way to disprove the eternity of the world. Thus, Aristotle's view was false -- as we know from Scripture -- but is nonetheless a plausible philosophical opinion. Not everything that conflicts with the faith can be disproved. Q: Why is there such strong resistance among both theologians and believers in general to the "God of the philosophers"? McInerny: There are many reasons for this, most of them bad. Pascal seemed to think the God of the philosophers was somehow numerically different from the God of Abraham and Isaac. Sometimes I suspect people are put off by the secularizing and skeptical character of much mainstream philosophy. St. Paul warned us not to be misled by philosophy. Kierkegaard, in the 19th century, sought to protect the faith from Kantian and Hegelian efforts to turn it into a philosophical project that would yield its truth to German philosophy professors. Unfortunately, he included natural theology in what he would protect from such presumption. Q: How does natural theology account for and understand atheism? McInerny: In "Gaudium et Spes," we have a remarkable little treatise on atheism and its many sources, most of which are moral. What could be more tragic than for a human being to be cut off from God, to deny his maker? The fathers of the [Second Vatican] Council saw contemporary atheism as a chief obstacle to evangelization. Natural theology gives only indirect comfort to the heart wounded by injustice and misfortune. Unless the pursuit of reason is complemented by the pursuit of virtue it can become a snare and delusion. Our natural theology tradition goes hand in hand with the realization that without the support of religious faith even natural truths becomes obscured and lost. The motivation for natural theology is to be found in the faith itself, as the reference to Romans and Vatican I makes clear. Any suggestion that acceptance of the mysteries of faith is akin to belief in the Great Pumpkin must be thoroughly rejected. Faith has as its object the first truth who is God and its truths, again, cannot be in conflict with truths gained by natural reason. It is noteworthy that in "Fides et Ratio," the Holy Father comes to the defense of reason at a time when many, many philosophers have lost confidence in our ability to attain the truth. The epistemological turn taken by Descartes continues to cut the human mind off from reality. Philosophy becomes interpretation, a subjective account of our experience, unable to reach an objective basis in the things that are. This is why the Thomistic revival inaugurated by Leo XIII remains of vital importance. Q: Does the natural law require the existence of God for its claims to be valid? McInerny: One must distinguish between the content of natural law -- common moral truths -- and the theoretical account of such knowledge. The latter makes reference to God explicitly but this may be only implicit in the ordinary recognition of right and wrong. A philosophy without theism, without natural theology, can never give an adequate account of morality. Natural theology and natural law provide a lingua franca in which believer and nonbeliever can communicate. That is why the Church is such a champion of both. [Courtesy: 19 May, 2003 -- Ralph McInerny on the Importance of Natural Theology, "Faith and the God of the Philosophers", Zenit Catholic News Agency, http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=35786 ] From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Thu May 15 13:34:25 2003 The Genesis narrative, which is concerned with Divine order over chaos as Reason particularised by the 7th day {ie. Time} as the 1st Law with its intrinsic relationship to the cosmology and epistemology which it which it overlays with a genealogy--is empirical! Is Chris perhaps being a little anti-Semitic? - dolf "Chris Ho-Stuart" wrote in message news:3ebe4543@news.qut.edu.au... By trying the importance of the story of Adam and Even to its truth as empirical history, the real focus of the biblical writers is diminished. Also, when investigation shows that the creationist empirical position is lunatic pseudo-science founded on errors, distortions, misunderstandings and outright misrepresentations, the whole account becomes discredited. [snipped for context] DOLF NOTE: "An important theological tenet of the Yahad Dead Sea Scroll community was the notion of predestination: from the very beginning, God had foreordained how history would develop, who would inherit eternal life, and who was destined for perdition. The Ages of the World is apparently a full discussion of this notion, proving the idea using examples drawn from the biblical text. In the surviving portions, the example of the ten generations between Shem and Abraham is the centerpiece." [Wise, Abegg & Cook, p 238] "Interpretation concerning the ages which God has made: An age to conclude all that there is and all that will be. Before creating them he determined their operations according to the precise sequence of the ages, one age after another age. And this is engraved on the heavenly tables for the sons of men {cf: A distict theological connotation connected with the genealogical literature known as the Book of Time Divisions in Weeks and Jubilees}, for all the ages of their dominion. THIS IS THE SEQUENCE OF THE SONS OF NOAH, FROM SHEM TO ABRAHAM, UNTIL HE SIRED ISAAC; TEN GENERATIONS." [4Q180 - 4QAges of Creation A Frag 1:1-5; DSS BRILL 199:371] It would appear that the principle Messianic Sabbathical blessing and testimony which is micro-ethically conveyed by the 10 Words (10 Commandments), is also understood to be derived from the 22 generations from Adam {Taken from 4 corners/Earthy; red} to Jacob {He takes by the heel, he supplants/That supplants, undermines; the heel} and especially from the genealogy of Shem {Exhalted Name/Name, renown} [Genesis 11:10] as the 10 generations of sons from Noah {Rest/Repose; consolation; That quavers or totters (Zelophehad's daughter - the shade or tingling of fear)} to Isaac {He laughs}. That is, if I map the genealogy of the Hebrews from Noah to Isaac as 10 Generation as ontology to the cosmological model conveyed by the taxonomy {as epistlemological hermeneutic}, it was historically understood to micro-ethically represent the 10 Commandments (ie # = Tao Te Ching and Psalm of David Referece): For example, if I focus this onto a portion of the Genealogy thusly: NOAH {Rest/ Repose; consolation} 1. Yod/L {[#79 (#26/#30 - Government without Coercion/ Be Chary of War) {26J 5W - FOCUS = Ratio/ Totality of Nature - May 6-10}]} SHEM {Exhalted Name/ Name, renown} 2. Kaf /M {[#77 (#61/#71 - Know-How as a Disease/ The Disease of Knowledge) {EQUITY - May 11-15}]} ARPHAXAD {I shall fail as the breast: he cursed the breast-bottle/ A healer; a releaser} 3. Lamed/N {[#75 (#62/#22 - The Point to Reversal?/ Humility's Increase) {RATIO - May 16-20}] } SHELAH {Sprout/That breaks; that unties; that undresses} 4. Mem/P {[#34 (#65/#63 - Origins in Reversal/ Consider Beginnings) {NATURE contains NATURE - May 21-25 }] } HEBER {The region beyond/ One that passes; anger} 5. Nun/Q {[#32 (#28/#14 - Metaphysical Issues/ Praising the Mysterious) {NATURE rejoices in its NATURE - May 26-31}] } PELEG {Division} / PEREZ {divided} 6. Samek/R {[#30 (#76/#46 - Guiding Contentment/ Moderation of Desire) {NATURE surmounts NATURE - Jun 1-5}] ) SERUG {Branch/ Layer; twining} 7. Ayin/S {[#17 (#30/#39 - Achieving Oneness/ The Root of Order) {NATURE amended in its NATURE - Jun 11-15}]} NAHOR {Snorting/ Hoarse; dry; hot} 8. Pe/T {[#78 (#35/#80 - Primitivist Independence/ Remaining in Isolation) {Act of NATURE - Jun 16-21}]} TERAH {Station, delay, a station of Israel in the wilderness/ To breathe; scent; blow} 9. Tsade/V {[#73 (#51/#31 - Military Strategies as Guides/ Quelling War) {Form of NATURE - Jun 22-26}] } ABRAM {Exalted father} ABRAHAM {Father of a multitude, chief of multitude} 10. Qoph/W {[#80 (#53/#72 - Self-Love/ Holding Oneself Dear)] {40J4W - Engendering NATURE - Jun 27-Jul 1}]} ISAAC {He laughs} 11. Resh/X {[#33 (#36/#23 - The Constancy of Guiding Concepts/ Emptiness & Non-Existence)] {Transforming NATURE - Jul 2-6}]} JACOB - He takes by the heel, he supplants/ That supplants, undermines; the heel 12. Shin/Y { [#28 (#23/#55 - Abstruse Signs/ The Signet of the Mysterious)] {Autonomous NATURE - Jul 7-11}]} JUDAH {the praise of the Lord; confession} 13. Tau/Z { [#35 (#75/#15 - Mastering Guiding Discourse/ The Revealers of Virtue)] {Totality of NATURE - Jul 12-16} ]} "'What will be the dividing of the times? Or when will be the end of the first age and the beginning of the age that follows?' He said to me, 'From Abraham {Father of a multitude, chief of multitude} to Isaac {He laughs}, because from him were born Jacob and Esau {he that acts or finishes}, for Jacob's hand held Esau's heel from the beginning. Now Esau is the end of this age, and Jacob is the beginning of the age that follows. The beginning of a person is the hand, and the end of a person is the heel; seek for nothing else, Ezra {help; court}, between the heel and the hand, Ezra!'" [2 Esdras 6:7-10 (NRSVA)] Actually the New Testament era Christians were Jewish and Gentile proselytes to Judaism. Beyond strident examples of 7th day Sabbath worship given in the New Testament Scriptures in continuing support of the Torah as Oracles of God, there is no actually no evidence of Sunday sacred hymenealism and other forms of occultism being adopted as acceptable by the disciples or the early church--In fact it is rejected. Indeed the view is that the Gentiles had a distinct lack of knowledge of the Law of God and the Jews failed to observe it. The examples which "Gladys Swager" gives as factititious and blasphemous claim to the Christian faith, are insubstantial as the bible and dead sea scrolls cache show a different picture--7th day Sabbath keeping Christians as God's Covenant people being systematically exterminated by Apostate Jews and Gentiles who do not know the law: "Brethren, do not be children in understanding, however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. In the law it is written: 'For with odd speech and mocking tongue these people were scoffing ... THEREFORE THEY WILL BE HANDED OVER TO THE GENTILES WHO DO NOT KNOW THE LAW...' [© Isaiah 28:9-13] And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed..." [1 Corithians 14:20-25] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Tue May 27 09:08:24 2003 Ken, I'm not sure why as a Sunday Sabbatarian Christian you are introducing the rationalistic and relivalist writings of Seventh-day Adventst Ellen G. White into the mix--Gladys Sawger is originally a disfunctional Roman Catholic {ra=1}. The two belong to different classes, one 'rational' and Christian the other 'irrational' and not Christian. "Ken Smith" wrote in message news:bau5vt$21p$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au... As Chris keeps pointing out there are plenty of Christians who are perfectly happy to see evolution as one of the ways God works in this universe. But these Christians, including me, are appalled by the way crreationists are bringing all of Christianity into disrepute by insisting that the beliefs of a mid-19th century woman are being promoted today as the very basis of Christian belief. But the way Ellen G. White's ideas have benn promoted is another "story, and I won't go into that here. [snipped for context] DOLF NOTE: This statement made by you, is not held to uniformly be correct by Creationists, "In fact, the young earth creationist view point requires the evolution of new species over the last 6000 years at rates far in excess of anything proposed by evolutionists." [Chris Ho-Stuart] 6,000 years and chronological creationism {ie. 7th day as a cosmological principle} hasn't been addressed by your view above! I'm wondering then [what] you think of my GRAPPLE -- Epistemelogical Hermeneutical as a empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive paradigm--And whether as a cosmological {chronological 7th day creationist}, ontological, epistemological and Christological viewpoint it has any defects as equally a creationist and evolutionary {Gk. entelechy} view? SEE here for Image of Grapple Epistemology Hermeneutic Paradigm http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/venn.gif This model maintains a consistency with the work of Chris Cowan co-author with Psychiatrist Don Beck of "Spiral Dynamics -- Mastering values, leadership and change" contained on the Spiral Dynamics WWW-page: "Those who have not recently visited Dolf Boek's work will find much new at http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos. Given the situation in Israel/Palestine and all of the religious undercurrents in today's world, Dolf's perspective offers yet another way to view the forces influencing human nature." [Ref: http://www.spiraldynamics.com/news.htm ] Jose Bernardo & Adrian Smith treatise on 'Bayesian Theory' [ISBN 0-471-92416-4] describes Bayesian Statistics as offering a rationalistic theory of personalistics beliefs in contexts of uncertainty, with the central aim of characterising how an individual should act in order to achieve certain kinds of desirable behavioural outcome. The theory establishes that expected utility maximisation as axiomatic approaches to quantifying uncertainty, provides the basis for rational decision making. The vMeme/Moment Mathematical/Chronological Kabbalistic model may be considered as a virtual universe or lens by which events are viewed as occurring within a definite time space. Where the probability P of some event E (denoted P(E)) is defined with respect to a "universe" {ie. an implied chronological universe: Telos (122J3W1D as 6,000) = Arch (0) + c²} in the case where the sample space is finite or countably infinite, a probability function can also be defined by its values on the elementary events {e1},{e2},... where S = {e1,e2,...} as a sample space S of all possible elementary events {ie. hemi-sphere sampled chronological universe of action: 3(3²+1)/2 (15 days) ... 9(9²+1/2 = (396 days)} in such a way that P must satisfy any probability axioms as rules of coherence and quantification (viz. Jose Bernardo & Adrian Smith), any implied epistemological hermeneutic usage given by language and number as the Kabbalistic empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive paradigm, in addition to the Kolmogorov probability axioms: AXIOM #1 : 0 <= P(E) <= 1 AXIOM #2 : P(S) = 1 AXIOM #3 : SUM P(Ei) = P(E1 U E2 U...) Bayes' theorem on probabilitywas originally formulated by Thomas Bayes (c. 1702-April 7,1761), a British mathematician and Presbyterian minister. Being published posthumously as "Essay Towards Solving a Problem in the Doctrine of Chances" within the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London of 1763. To grasp the metaphysical intention of such mathematical/philosophical conceptions of Bayesian Theory, it is prudent to consider his other two works published within his lifetime, namely: "Divine Benevolence, or an Attempt to Prove That the Principal End of the Divine Providence and Government is the Happiness of His Creatures (1731 )", and "An Introduction to the Doctrine of Fluxions {ie. the derivative relative to the time, the rate of change of a varying quantity}, and a Defence of the Mathematicians Against the Objections of the Author of the Analyst, in which he defended Isaac Newton's foundations of calculus (1736)". - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html#AXIOM4 "Chris Ho-Stuart" wrote in message news:3ed0862e@news.qut.edu.au... I shall continue to respond in any case. My aim -- which I think I am achieving -- is to show clearly the defects and problems in the creationist view, and the various misrepresentations and distortions which are used to support it. I would like this to be better known and understood within the church. There are many young people who, thanks to the efforts of creationists, end up thinking that science and Christianity are in conflict. I would like to see more people within the church willing and able address this matter. I also think it is somewhat amusing that Gladys focuses so much on evolution. The fact is that the young earth creationst position is inconsistent also with elementary geology and astronomy; and that the application of physics and chemistry and indeed almost any field of empirical study will somewhere along the line also cause problems for creationists. It is not just evolution they reject. Ultimately, it is pretty much the whole edifice of modern science. [snipped for context] From hunter1@arach.net.au Sat May 17 08:19:12 2003 Like you ever say anything except mouthfuls of bullshit, that bloke made far more sense than you ever have. Fuck off dolf, we all want you to die, we will all come together to celebrate your death, you are such an anti-social, ignorant and inconsiderate fuckhead, that even the gods will cheer upon your death. In short, FUCK OFF AND DIE! Dolf Boek wrote: > 8 Words as a question. > > I wonder what motivated Morphet to make a response to a newsgroup which is > of no value! > > - dolf From hunter1@arach.net.au Sat May 17 08:19:12 2003 Like you ever say anything except mouthfuls of bullshit, that bloke made far more sense than you ever have. Fuck off dolf, we all want you to die, we will all come together to celebrate your death, you are such an anti-social, ignorant and inconsiderate fuckhead, that even the gods will cheer upon your death. In short, FUCK OFF AND DIE! Dolf Boek wrote: > 8 Words as a question. > > I wonder what motivated Morphet to make a response to a newsgroup which is > of no value! > > - dolf From al_bmandctd@connexus.net.au Sun May 18 20:10:35 2003 On Sat, 17 May 2003 08:30:29 GMT, "Dolf Boek" wrote: > >DOLF NOTE: >Perhaps I should show gratitude that you read my post with such granularity, >or lament that ignorance should cause such opportunity for amusement! > Thanks for the bible bashing Dolf. I'd prefer an insult for my collection though. Words of wisdom from Al. Keep out of the sun, it's cooked your brain, maybe too late for you or have you been struck by lightning recently or dropped on your head as a baby? Al 2003 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Mon May 19 04:54:40 2003 If you can't contribute anything life sustaining within the conversation and relevant to the newsgroup thread topic, then I'd suggest that as you appear to be a reprobate, you don't! - dolf "Albm&ctd" wrote in message news:3ec75b22.3308249@news.cis.dfn.de... Thanks for the bible bashing Dolf. I'd prefer an insult for my collection though. Words of wisdom from Al. Keep out of the sun, it's cooked your brain, maybe too late for you or have you been struck by lightning recently or dropped on your head as a baby? DOLF NOTE: Epistemological support is implied within any Epistle: Take for example Stephen's {Crowned} oral epistlemology as benediction "...who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it. When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, 'Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!' Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.' Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord, do not charge them with this sin.' And when he had said this, he fell asleep." [Acts 7:54 -60] - dolf "Albm&ctd" wrote in message news:3ec5ecbc.1499289@news.cis.dfn.de... If you think you are so brilliant using big words that send everyone running for their dictionary, be kind enough to spell them correctly. This is the reason I use words like dork. Easy to spell and sums you up in one word :-) Al DOLF NOTE: Perhaps I should show gratitude that you read my post with such granularity, or lament that ignorance should cause such opportunity for amusement! Which sums you: "Given to pedantry at the sight of a spelling error?" "Beyond semantics did you have something to say?" - dolf "Albm&ctd" wrote in message news:3ec47eff.1883871@news.cis.dfn.de... >epistlemological epistemological? Al 2003 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html From al_bmandctd@connexus.net.au Mon May 19 15:54:00 2003 On Mon, 19 May 2003 12:57:46 +1000, Barry OGrady wrote: >I'm not sure why "Dolf Boek" is engaging in public >vilification when he ought to know that such conduct is unconstitutional >within Australia. Such conduct cannot be within acceptable usable usage >according to the terms and conditions of his Internet Service Provider >Agreement. >A complaint has been made to his ISP. I've got a complaint too. He hasn't sent me an insult for my collection - at the site below :-) Al 2003 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Mon May 19 15:57:24 2003 "Albm&ctd" wrote in message news:3ec87098.1692842@news.cis.dfn.de... This is crossposted to aus.cars. Suggest you study several workshop manuals and get back to us. DOLF NOTE: Perhaps I should have said, Bendigo. Nah mate, sorry catastrophe a spelling error, make that: Ben I= (Sphere?) Go[d] as in "Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!" [Acts 7:54 -60] "Ben" in Hebrew indicates HEIRSHIP/REMNANT 1. Son, male child 2. Grandson 3. Children (pl. - male and female) 4. Youth, young men 5. Young (of animals) Zerubbabel - offspring of Babylon/A stranger at Babylon; 6. dispersion of confusion 'Give us Bar-Abbas - son of shame, confusion' Sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for unrighteous men] or sons of God [for angels] - Sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, Sons of the age to come are as angels People (of a nation) (pl.) 144,000 (12 tribes) 7. 1) Of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows (fig.) 2) A member of a guild, order, class "Dolf Boek" wrote in message news:3GQxa.2548$7I4.22654@news-server.bigpond.net.au... If you can't contribute anything life sustaining within the conversation and relevant to the newsgroup thread topic, then I'd suggest that as you appear to be a reprobate, you don't! - dolf "Albm&ctd" wrote in message news:3ec75b22.3308249@news.cis.dfn.de... Thanks for the bible bashing Dolf. I'd prefer an insult for my collection though. Words of wisdom from Al. Keep out of the sun, it's cooked your brain, maybe too late for you or have you been struck by lightning recently or dropped on your head as a baby? DOLF NOTE: Epistemological support is implied within any Epistle: Take for example Stephen's {Crowned} oral epistlemology as benediction "...who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it. When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, 'Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!' Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.' Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord, do not charge them with this sin.' And when he had said this, he fell asleep." [Acts 7:54 -60] - dolf "Albm&ctd" wrote in message news:3ec5ecbc.1499289@news.cis.dfn.de... If you think you are so brilliant using big words that send everyone running for their dictionary, be kind enough to spell them correctly. This is the reason I use words like dork. Easy to spell and sums you up in one word :-) Al DOLF NOTE: Perhaps I should show gratitude that you read my post with such granularity, or lament that ignorance should cause such opportunity for amusement! Which sums you: "Given to pedantry at the sight of a spelling error?" "Beyond semantics did you have something to say?" - dolf "Albm&ctd" wrote in message news:3ec47eff.1883871@news.cis.dfn.de... >epistlemological epistemological? Al 2003 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed May 21 05:49:00 2003 The natural and regulative philosophical/ metaphysical model conveyed by my WWW-page and over which I have exclusive copyright, transcends, sub-ordinates and obsoletes similar claims made by the Roman Papal Authority below. My own work-in-progress as philosophical investigations and discovery of this empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive model as a mathematical {9(9²+1)/2 (369 days) - 3(32²+1)/2 (15 days) = 354 days of typical lunar cycle} & chronological {Telos (6,000 years as 122J3W1D) = Arch (0) + c²} a priori {eg: Tao}. It is established upon the autonomous, regulative philosophical and systematic theological principles espoused by the Letters Patent to the Australian Constitution of 1901 and by specific inclusion Section 116 as the Constitutions religious clause. To convey the exceptional character of this jurisprudent and ethical model for the administration of governance without coercion, I previously quoted Paul Tillich view that, Attempts to elaborate [such] a theology as an empirical-inductive or a meta-physical deductive science, or as a combination of both, have given ample evidence that no such attempt [has in the past] succeed[ed]. In every [other] assumedly scientific theology, there is a point where individual experience, traditional valuation, and personal commitment must decide the issue. This point is often hidden to the authors of such theologies, is obvious to those who look at them with other experiences and other commitments. [Paul Tillich, 1951 University of Chicago, 'Systematic Theology - Reason & Revelation, Being and God'] The following epistemological hermeneutic on the English language axonomy {non-Chaldean (and Non-Roman Catholic) astrological symbolism} is a further example of the English language's intrinsic connection with these Torah & Hebrew language originating chronological metaphysical/regulative principles that equally gave rise to the Pythagorean Theory of Number: A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} [Ref: Enclosed Folio entitled: The Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles which underpin the Letters Patent to Australia's Constitution http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html ] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ ROME, MAY 19, 2003 (Zenit.org) .- In an age of skepticism, philosophy is often viewed with a suspicious eye by people of religious faith. However, philosophy has always been an integral part of the life of the Church as outlined by John Paul II in his encyclical " Fides et Ratio ." Ralph McInerny is using his appointment as the Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University to discuss the branch of philosophy that searches for God, known as natural theology. He recently shared his thoughts with ZENIT on this topic. McInerny is a professor of philosophy at the University of Notre Dame. He will present a public lecture at the Gregorian on May 23 entitled, "From Shadows and Images to the Truth." Q: What is natural theology? In other words, explain what it means that it is an article of faith that God can be known by reason apart from faith. McInerny: It is, by another name, philosophical theology; that is, the knowledge of God that can be attained from common human experience of the world, without dependence on religious faith. Plato, and especially Aristotle, in pre-Christian times, carried the theology of the philosophers to heights which are still cause for marvel. The whole point of classical philosophy -- the love of wisdom -- was to attain such knowledge of God as is possible for the human mind. It is in contemplating God that the most perfect happiness is found. So natural theology is not just a special set of topics, but the key to philosophy. The Catholic tradition sees in Romans 1:19-20 the scriptural basis for what was defined by Vatican I, namely, that it is "de fide" that God can be known by natural powers of man unaided by faith. Q: Does natural theology aim to prove the existence of God? McInerny: That is the first step, of course, and proving the existence of God is no easy matter. There is a garden-variety certainty that most people have that the universe is governed by its Maker and that we are answerable to him. Philosophical proofs seek to make it logically inescapable that God, the first cause of all else, exists. But what is he like? The attributes of God, efforts to describe him, are the next step. He is intelligent, good, the source of order, our ultimate end, etc. Q: Why is it important to distinguish between natural theology and religious faith? McInerny: Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else. Natural theology is an achievement; faith is a gift. To demand that the mysteries of faith be proved in the usual way, is the beginning of the loss of faith. Q: Why is natural theology important for understanding Catholic doctrine? McInerny: As the Holy Father reminded us in "Fides et Ratio," our faith is reasonable. There is a complementarity between faith and reason, each needs the other. One of the uses of natural theology is precisely to show that it is reasonable to accept truths about God we cannot in this life comprehend. St. Thomas Aquinas observed that the truths about God that philosophers establish are part of what has been revealed, embedded in them, as it were. You cannot believe that God is three persons in one nature without accepting that God exists. Most of us accept revelation as a whole from our mother's knee without distinguishing between the mysteries it conveys and the truths about God that can be known, in the usual sense of know, such as that he is, that he is one, maker of all, etc. Thomas called these knowable truths included in revelation "preambles of faith." If some of the truths God has revealed about himself can be known in the usual sense of know, then it is reasonable to accept the others as intelligible in themselves, however obscure to us in this life. This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology. Q: Why do the claims of natural theology seem to contradict what we know about God from the Bible? How is this problem overcome? McInerny: The rule is that there cannot be a real conflict between faith and reason. Both have their source in God who does not contradict himself. If there really is a conflict -- a contradiction -- between a rational claim and the faith, the rational claim must be false, or not as strong a claim as it purports to be, perhaps only a theory. Sometimes a deeper understanding of Revelation and Scripture has been prompted by difficulties arising from reason, so it is to a degree a two-way street. In the Middle Ages the so-called errors of Aristotle provided Thomas Aquinas with opportunities to exhibit how supple the interaction of reason and faith often is. Aristotle thought the world is eternal, which conflicts with Genesis. Aristotle is wrong here, but Thomas observes that there is no philosophical way to disprove the eternity of the world. Thus, Aristotle's view was false -- as we know from Scripture -- but is nonetheless a plausible philosophical opinion. Not everything that conflicts with the faith can be disproved. Q: Why is there such strong resistance among both theologians and believers in general to the "God of the philosophers"? McInerny: There are many reasons for this, most of them bad. Pascal seemed to think the God of the philosophers was somehow numerically different from the God of Abraham and Isaac. Sometimes I suspect people are put off by the secularizing and skeptical character of much mainstream philosophy. St. Paul warned us not to be misled by philosophy. Kierkegaard, in the 19th century, sought to protect the faith from Kantian and Hegelian efforts to turn it into a philosophical project that would yield its truth to German philosophy professors. Unfortunately, he included natural theology in what he would protect from such presumption. Q: How does natural theology account for and understand atheism? McInerny: In "Gaudium et Spes," we have a remarkable little treatise on atheism and its many sources, most of which are moral. What could be more tragic than for a human being to be cut off from God, to deny his maker? The fathers of the [Second Vatican] Council saw contemporary atheism as a chief obstacle to evangelization. Natural theology gives only indirect comfort to the heart wounded by injustice and misfortune. Unless the pursuit of reason is complemented by the pursuit of virtue it can become a snare and delusion. Our natural theology tradition goes hand in hand with the realization that without the support of religious faith even natural truths becomes obscured and lost. The motivation for natural theology is to be found in the faith itself, as the reference to Romans and Vatican I makes clear. Any suggestion that acceptance of the mysteries of faith is akin to belief in the Great Pumpkin must be thoroughly rejected. Faith has as its object the first truth who is God and its truths, again, cannot be in conflict with truths gained by natural reason. It is noteworthy that in "Fides et Ratio," the Holy Father comes to the defense of reason at a time when many, many philosophers have lost confidence in our ability to attain the truth. The epistemological turn taken by Descartes continues to cut the human mind off from reality. Philosophy becomes interpretation, a subjective account of our experience, unable to reach an objective basis in the things that are. This is why the Thomistic revival inaugurated by Leo XIII remains of vital importance. Q: Does the natural law require the existence of God for its claims to be valid? McInerny: One must distinguish between the content of natural law -- common moral truths -- and the theoretical account of such knowledge. The latter makes reference to God explicitly but this may be only implicit in the ordinary recognition of right and wrong. A philosophy without theism, without natural theology, can never give an adequate account of morality. Natural theology and natural law provide a lingua franca in which believer and nonbeliever can communicate. That is why the Church is such a champion of both. [Courtesy: 19 May, 2003 -- Ralph McInerny on the Importance of Natural Theology, "Faith and the God of the Philosophers", Zenit Catholic News Agency, http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=35786 ] From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed May 21 05:49:52 2003 Beyond sensualism, you don't have any tangiblity of a spiritual life. "BJ" wrote in message news:tgXxa.123$Ih6.1612@news-server.bigpond.net.au... I have to ask, can ANYONE make ANY sense of Dolt's Website??? I know i cant, it seems like the maniacal ravings of a complete and utter FREAK DOLF NOTE: The natural and regulative philosophical/ metaphysical model conveyed by my WWW-page and over which I have exclusive copyright, transcends, sub-ordinates and obsoletes similar claims made by the Roman Papal Authority below. My own work-in-progress as philosophical investigations and discovery of this empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive model as a mathematical {9(9²+1)/2 (369 days) - 3(32²+1)/2 (15 days) = 354 days of typical lunar cycle} & chronological {Telos (6,000 years as 122J3W1D) = Arch (0) + c²} a priori {eg: Tao}. It is established upon the autonomous, regulative philosophical and systematic theological principles espoused by the Letters Patent to the Australian Constitution of 1901 and by specific inclusion Section 116 as the Constitutions religious clause. To convey the exceptional character of this jurisprudent and ethical model for the administration of governance without coercion, I previously quoted Paul Tillich view that, Attempts to elaborate [such] a theology as an empirical-inductive or a meta-physical deductive science, or as a combination of both, have given ample evidence that no such attempt [has in the past] succeed[ed]. In every [other] assumedly scientific theology, there is a point where individual experience, traditional valuation, and personal commitment must decide the issue. This point is often hidden to the authors of such theologies, is obvious to those who look at them with other experiences and other commitments. [Paul Tillich, 1951 University of Chicago, 'Systematic Theology - Reason & Revelation, Being and God'] The following epistemological hermeneutic on the English language axonomy {non-Chaldean (and Non-Roman Catholic) astrological symbolism} is a further example of the English language's intrinsic connection with these Torah & Hebrew language originating chronological metaphysical/regulative principles that equally gave rise to the Pythagorean Theory of Number: A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} [Ref: Enclosed Folio entitled: The Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles which underpin the Letters Patent to Australia's Constitution http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html ] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ ROME, MAY 19, 2003 (Zenit.org) .- In an age of skepticism, philosophy is often viewed with a suspicious eye by people of religious faith. However, philosophy has always been an integral part of the life of the Church as outlined by John Paul II in his encyclical " Fides et Ratio ." Ralph McInerny is using his appointment as the Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University to discuss the branch of philosophy that searches for God, known as natural theology. He recently shared his thoughts with ZENIT on this topic. McInerny is a professor of philosophy at the University of Notre Dame. He will present a public lecture at the Gregorian on May 23 entitled, "From Shadows and Images to the Truth." Q: What is natural theology? In other words, explain what it means that it is an article of faith that God can be known by reason apart from faith. McInerny: It is, by another name, philosophical theology; that is, the knowledge of God that can be attained from common human experience of the world, without dependence on religious faith. Plato, and especially Aristotle, in pre-Christian times, carried the theology of the philosophers to heights which are still cause for marvel. The whole point of classical philosophy -- the love of wisdom -- was to attain such knowledge of God as is possible for the human mind. It is in contemplating God that the most perfect happiness is found. So natural theology is not just a special set of topics, but the key to philosophy. The Catholic tradition sees in Romans 1:19-20 the scriptural basis for what was defined by Vatican I, namely, that it is "de fide" that God can be known by natural powers of man unaided by faith. Q: Does natural theology aim to prove the existence of God? McInerny: That is the first step, of course, and proving the existence of God is no easy matter. There is a garden-variety certainty that most people have that the universe is governed by its Maker and that we are answerable to him. Philosophical proofs seek to make it logically inescapable that God, the first cause of all else, exists. But what is he like? The attributes of God, efforts to describe him, are the next step. He is intelligent, good, the source of order, our ultimate end, etc. Q: Why is it important to distinguish between natural theology and religious faith? McInerny: Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else. Natural theology is an achievement; faith is a gift. To demand that the mysteries of faith be proved in the usual way, is the beginning of the loss of faith. Q: Why is natural theology important for understanding Catholic doctrine? McInerny: As the Holy Father reminded us in "Fides et Ratio," our faith is reasonable. There is a complementarity between faith and reason, each needs the other. One of the uses of natural theology is precisely to show that it is reasonable to accept truths about God we cannot in this life comprehend. St. Thomas Aquinas observed that the truths about God that philosophers establish are part of what has been revealed, embedded in them, as it were. You cannot believe that God is three persons in one nature without accepting that God exists. Most of us accept revelation as a whole from our mother's knee without distinguishing between the mysteries it conveys and the truths about God that can be known, in the usual sense of know, such as that he is, that he is one, maker of all, etc. Thomas called these knowable truths included in revelation "preambles of faith." If some of the truths God has revealed about himself can be known in the usual sense of know, then it is reasonable to accept the others as intelligible in themselves, however obscure to us in this life. This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology. Q: Why do the claims of natural theology seem to contradict what we know about God from the Bible? How is this problem overcome? McInerny: The rule is that there cannot be a real conflict between faith and reason. Both have their source in God who does not contradict himself. If there really is a conflict -- a contradiction -- between a rational claim and the faith, the rational claim must be false, or not as strong a claim as it purports to be, perhaps only a theory. Sometimes a deeper understanding of Revelation and Scripture has been prompted by difficulties arising from reason, so it is to a degree a two-way street. In the Middle Ages the so-called errors of Aristotle provided Thomas Aquinas with opportunities to exhibit how supple the interaction of reason and faith often is. Aristotle thought the world is eternal, which conflicts with Genesis. Aristotle is wrong here, but Thomas observes that there is no philosophical way to disprove the eternity of the world. Thus, Aristotle's view was false -- as we know from Scripture -- but is nonetheless a plausible philosophical opinion. Not everything that conflicts with the faith can be disproved. Q: Why is there such strong resistance among both theologians and believers in general to the "God of the philosophers"? McInerny: There are many reasons for this, most of them bad. Pascal seemed to think the God of the philosophers was somehow numerically different from the God of Abraham and Isaac. Sometimes I suspect people are put off by the secularizing and skeptical character of much mainstream philosophy. St. Paul warned us not to be misled by philosophy. Kierkegaard, in the 19th century, sought to protect the faith from Kantian and Hegelian efforts to turn it into a philosophical project that would yield its truth to German philosophy professors. Unfortunately, he included natural theology in what he would protect from such presumption. Q: How does natural theology account for and understand atheism? McInerny: In "Gaudium et Spes," we have a remarkable little treatise on atheism and its many sources, most of which are moral. What could be more tragic than for a human being to be cut off from God, to deny his maker? The fathers of the [Second Vatican] Council saw contemporary atheism as a chief obstacle to evangelization. Natural theology gives only indirect comfort to the heart wounded by injustice and misfortune. Unless the pursuit of reason is complemented by the pursuit of virtue it can become a snare and delusion. Our natural theology tradition goes hand in hand with the realization that without the support of religious faith even natural truths becomes obscured and lost. The motivation for natural theology is to be found in the faith itself, as the reference to Romans and Vatican I makes clear. Any suggestion that acceptance of the mysteries of faith is akin to belief in the Great Pumpkin must be thoroughly rejected. Faith has as its object the first truth who is God and its truths, again, cannot be in conflict with truths gained by natural reason. It is noteworthy that in "Fides et Ratio," the Holy Father comes to the defense of reason at a time when many, many philosophers have lost confidence in our ability to attain the truth. The epistemological turn taken by Descartes continues to cut the human mind off from reality. Philosophy becomes interpretation, a subjective account of our experience, unable to reach an objective basis in the things that are. This is why the Thomistic revival inaugurated by Leo XIII remains of vital importance. Q: Does the natural law require the existence of God for its claims to be valid? McInerny: One must distinguish between the content of natural law -- common moral truths -- and the theoretical account of such knowledge. The latter makes reference to God explicitly but this may be only implicit in the ordinary recognition of right and wrong. A philosophy without theism, without natural theology, can never give an adequate account of morality. Natural theology and natural law provide a lingua franca in which believer and nonbeliever can communicate. That is why the Church is such a champion of both. [Courtesy: 19 May, 2003 -- Ralph McInerny on the Importance of Natural Theology, "Faith and the God of the Philosophers", Zenit Catholic News Agency, http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=35786 ] From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed May 21 06:31:15 2003 In point of fact, no aspect of Catholic Religious Dogma retains any fidelity to principles of regulative philiosphy and the metaphysical principles of the Hebrew's Torah (as is evidence by 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping Hebrew/Christians within the New Testament era)-- For this reason, the Catholic diplomatic and Vatican State representative within Australia, Archbishop George Pell will be continue to be pursued for religious slander, and treasonable violation of human and Consitutional Rights. - dolf "Joseph Meehan" wrote in message news:v5wya.52899$BA.19052047@twister.columbus.rr.com... Dolf, The rest of the world is not really interested in your foolishness. Don't bother cross posting to every news group you can think of. Sure reply to the news group(s) that the message you are replying to included, if necessary, but don't add any additional news groups to the list. I might add you can take tnn.religion.catholic off your list totally. It would be appreciated. It might be even better if you removed alt.recovery.catholicism They have enough problems with out you. Of course you can show how much you really care about the rest of the world, by either doing as I suggest or ignoring it. In either case it will show. DOF BOEK The natural and regulative philosophical/ metaphysical model conveyed by my WWW-page and over which I have exclusive copyright, transcends, sub-ordinates and obsoletes similar claims made by the Roman Papal Authority below. My own work-in-progress as philosophical investigations and discovery of this empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive model as a mathematical {9(9²+1)/2 (369 days) - 3(32²+1)/2 (15 days) = 354 days of typical lunar cycle} & chronological {Telos (6,000 years as 122J3W1D) = Arch (0) + c²} a priori {eg: Tao}. It is established upon the autonomous, regulative philosophical and systematic theological principles espoused by the Letters Patent to the Australian Constitution of 1901 and by specific inclusion Section 116 as the Constitutions religious clause. To convey the exceptional character of this jurisprudent and ethical model for the administration of governance without coercion, I previously quoted Paul Tillich view that, Attempts to elaborate [such] a theology as an empirical-inductive or a meta-physical deductive science, or as a combination of both, have given ample evidence that no such attempt [has in the past] succeed[ed]. In every [other] assumedly scientific theology, there is a point where individual experience, traditional valuation, and personal commitment must decide the issue. This point is often hidden to the authors of such theologies, is obvious to those who look at them with other experiences and other commitments. [Paul Tillich, 1951 University of Chicago, 'Systematic Theology - Reason & Revelation, Being and God'] The following epistemological hermeneutic on the English language axonomy {non-Chaldean (and Non-Roman Catholic) astrological symbolism} is a further example of the English language's intrinsic connection with these Torah & Hebrew language originating chronological metaphysical/regulative principles that equally gave rise to the Pythagorean Theory of Number: A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} [Ref: Enclosed Folio entitled: The Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles which underpin the Letters Patent to Australia's Constitution http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html ] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ ROME, MAY 19, 2003 (Zenit.org) .- In an age of skepticism, philosophy is often viewed with a suspicious eye by people of religious faith. However, philosophy has always been an integral part of the life of the Church as outlined by John Paul II in his encyclical " Fides et Ratio ." Ralph McInerny is using his appointment as the Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University to discuss the branch of philosophy that searches for God, known as natural theology. He recently shared his thoughts with ZENIT on this topic. McInerny is a professor of philosophy at the University of Notre Dame. He will present a public lecture at the Gregorian on May 23 entitled, "From Shadows and Images to the Truth." Q: What is natural theology? In other words, explain what it means that it is an article of faith that God can be known by reason apart from faith. McInerny: It is, by another name, philosophical theology; that is, the knowledge of God that can be attained from common human experience of the world, without dependence on religious faith. Plato, and especially Aristotle, in pre-Christian times, carried the theology of the philosophers to heights which are still cause for marvel. The whole point of classical philosophy -- the love of wisdom -- was to attain such knowledge of God as is possible for the human mind. It is in contemplating God that the most perfect happiness is found. So natural theology is not just a special set of topics, but the key to philosophy. The Catholic tradition sees in Romans 1:19-20 the scriptural basis for what was defined by Vatican I, namely, that it is "de fide" that God can be known by natural powers of man unaided by faith. Q: Does natural theology aim to prove the existence of God? McInerny: That is the first step, of course, and proving the existence of God is no easy matter. There is a garden-variety certainty that most people have that the universe is governed by its Maker and that we are answerable to him. Philosophical proofs seek to make it logically inescapable that God, the first cause of all else, exists. But what is he like? The attributes of God, efforts to describe him, are the next step. He is intelligent, good, the source of order, our ultimate end, etc. Q: Why is it important to distinguish between natural theology and religious faith? McInerny: Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else. Natural theology is an achievement; faith is a gift. To demand that the mysteries of faith be proved in the usual way, is the beginning of the loss of faith. Q: Why is natural theology important for understanding Catholic doctrine? McInerny: As the Holy Father reminded us in "Fides et Ratio," our faith is reasonable. There is a complementarity between faith and reason, each needs the other. One of the uses of natural theology is precisely to show that it is reasonable to accept truths about God we cannot in this life comprehend. St. Thomas Aquinas observed that the truths about God that philosophers establish are part of what has been revealed, embedded in them, as it were. You cannot believe that God is three persons in one nature without accepting that God exists. Most of us accept revelation as a whole from our mother's knee without distinguishing between the mysteries it conveys and the truths about God that can be known, in the usual sense of know, such as that he is, that he is one, maker of all, etc. Thomas called these knowable truths included in revelation "preambles of faith." If some of the truths God has revealed about himself can be known in the usual sense of know, then it is reasonable to accept the others as intelligible in themselves, however obscure to us in this life. This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology. Q: Why do the claims of natural theology seem to contradict what we know about God from the Bible? How is this problem overcome? McInerny: The rule is that there cannot be a real conflict between faith and reason. Both have their source in God who does not contradict himself. If there really is a conflict -- a contradiction -- between a rational claim and the faith, the rational claim must be false, or not as strong a claim as it purports to be, perhaps only a theory. Sometimes a deeper understanding of Revelation and Scripture has been prompted by difficulties arising from reason, so it is to a degree a two-way street. In the Middle Ages the so-called errors of Aristotle provided Thomas Aquinas with opportunities to exhibit how supple the interaction of reason and faith often is. Aristotle thought the world is eternal, which conflicts with Genesis. Aristotle is wrong here, but Thomas observes that there is no philosophical way to disprove the eternity of the world. Thus, Aristotle's view was false -- as we know from Scripture -- but is nonetheless a plausible philosophical opinion. Not everything that conflicts with the faith can be disproved. Q: Why is there such strong resistance among both theologians and believers in general to the "God of the philosophers"? McInerny: There are many reasons for this, most of them bad. Pascal seemed to think the God of the philosophers was somehow numerically different from the God of Abraham and Isaac. Sometimes I suspect people are put off by the secularizing and skeptical character of much mainstream philosophy. St. Paul warned us not to be misled by philosophy. Kierkegaard, in the 19th century, sought to protect the faith from Kantian and Hegelian efforts to turn it into a philosophical project that would yield its truth to German philosophy professors. Unfortunately, he included natural theology in what he would protect from such presumption. Q: How does natural theology account for and understand atheism? McInerny: In "Gaudium et Spes," we have a remarkable little treatise on atheism and its many sources, most of which are moral. What could be more tragic than for a human being to be cut off from God, to deny his maker? The fathers of the [Second Vatican] Council saw contemporary atheism as a chief obstacle to evangelization. Natural theology gives only indirect comfort to the heart wounded by injustice and misfortune. Unless the pursuit of reason is complemented by the pursuit of virtue it can become a snare and delusion. Our natural theology tradition goes hand in hand with the realization that without the support of religious faith even natural truths becomes obscured and lost. The motivation for natural theology is to be found in the faith itself, as the reference to Romans and Vatican I makes clear. Any suggestion that acceptance of the mysteries of faith is akin to belief in the Great Pumpkin must be thoroughly rejected. Faith has as its object the first truth who is God and its truths, again, cannot be in conflict with truths gained by natural reason. It is noteworthy that in "Fides et Ratio," the Holy Father comes to the defense of reason at a time when many, many philosophers have lost confidence in our ability to attain the truth. The epistemological turn taken by Descartes continues to cut the human mind off from reality. Philosophy becomes interpretation, a subjective account of our experience, unable to reach an objective basis in the things that are. This is why the Thomistic revival inaugurated by Leo XIII remains of vital importance. Q: Does the natural law require the existence of God for its claims to be valid? McInerny: One must distinguish between the content of natural law -- common moral truths -- and the theoretical account of such knowledge. The latter makes reference to God explicitly but this may be only implicit in the ordinary recognition of right and wrong. A philosophy without theism, without natural theology, can never give an adequate account of morality. Natural theology and natural law provide a lingua franca in which believer and nonbeliever can communicate. That is why the Church is such a champion of both. [Courtesy: 19 May, 2003 -- Ralph McInerny on the Importance of Natural Theology, "Faith and the God of the Philosophers", Zenit Catholic News Agency, http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=35786 ] From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed May 21 09:17:28 2003 Ralph McInerny as Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University, is erroeneous and ignorant of Hebrew/Gentile 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping as the basis for metaphysical, regulative philosophical and occidental Christianity, when he says "This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology." A Treatise by Protestant Samuele Bacchiocchi was previously awarded the Papal Gregorian Gold Medal, as opinion on the subject of the history and continuing relevance of 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping. As the basis of a natural and everlasting covenant experience with God (YAHWEH), who by such attribution of Nature, is particularised within the Torah and New Testament as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer . In point of fact, no aspect of Catholic Religious Dogma retains any fidelity to principles of regulative philosophy and the metaphysical principles of the Hebrew's Torah (as is evidence by 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping Hebrew/Christians within the New Testament era)-- For this reason, the Catholic diplomatic and Vatican State representative within Australia, Archbishop George Pell will be continue to be pursued for religious slander, and treasonable violation of human and Consitutional Rights. - dolf The natural and regulative philosophical/ metaphysical model conveyed by my WWW-page and over which I have exclusive copyright, transcends, sub-ordinates and obsoletes similar claims made by the Roman Papal Authority below. My own work-in-progress as philosophical investigations and discovery of this empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive model as a mathematical {9(9²+1)/2 (369 days) - 3(3²+1)/2 (15 days) = 354 days of typical lunar cycle} & chronological {Telos (6,000 years as 122J3W1D) = Arch (0) + c²} a priori {eg: Tao}. It is established upon the autonomous, regulative philosophical and systematic theological principles espoused by the Letters Patent to the Australian Constitution of 1901 and by specific inclusion Section 116 as the Constitutions religious clause. To convey the exceptional character of this jurisprudent and ethical model for the administration of governance without coercion, I previously quoted Paul Tillich view that, Attempts to elaborate [such] a theology as an empirical-inductive or a meta-physical deductive science, or as a combination of both, have given ample evidence that no such attempt [has in the past] succeed[ed]. In every [other] assumedly scientific theology, there is a point where individual experience, traditional valuation, and personal commitment must decide the issue. This point is often hidden to the authors of such theologies, is obvious to those who look at them with other experiences and other commitments. [Paul Tillich, 1951 University of Chicago, 'Systematic Theology - Reason & Revelation, Being and God'] The following epistemological hermeneutic on the 22 letter Hebrew/26 (21 + 5 Vowel) English language taxonomy {non-Chaldean (and Non-Roman Catholic as Latin only had 23 letters) astrological symbolism} is a further example of the English language's intrinsic connection with these Torah & Hebrew language originating chronological metaphysical/regulative principles that equally gave rise to the Pythagorean Theory of Number: A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} [Ref: Enclosed Folio entitled: The Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles which underpin the Letters Patent to Australia's Constitution http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html ] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ ROME, MAY 19, 2003 (Zenit.org) .- In an age of skepticism, philosophy is often viewed with a suspicious eye by people of religious faith. However, philosophy has always been an integral part of the life of the Church as outlined by John Paul II in his encyclical " Fides et Ratio ." Ralph McInerny is using his appointment as the Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University to discuss the branch of philosophy that searches for God, known as natural theology. He recently shared his thoughts with ZENIT on this topic. McInerny is a professor of philosophy at the University of Notre Dame. He will present a public lecture at the Gregorian on May 23 entitled, "From Shadows and Images to the Truth." Q: What is natural theology? In other words, explain what it means that it is an article of faith that God can be known by reason apart from faith. McInerny: It is, by another name, philosophical theology; that is, the knowledge of God that can be attained from common human experience of the world, without dependence on religious faith. Plato, and especially Aristotle, in pre-Christian times, carried the theology of the philosophers to heights which are still cause for marvel. The whole point of classical philosophy -- the love of wisdom -- was to attain such knowledge of God as is possible for the human mind. It is in contemplating God that the most perfect happiness is found. So natural theology is not just a special set of topics, but the key to philosophy. The Catholic tradition sees in Romans 1:19-20 the scriptural basis for what was defined by Vatican I, namely, that it is "de fide" that God can be known by natural powers of man unaided by faith. Q: Does natural theology aim to prove the existence of God? McInerny: That is the first step, of course, and proving the existence of God is no easy matter. There is a garden-variety certainty that most people have that the universe is governed by its Maker and that we are answerable to him. Philosophical proofs seek to make it logically inescapable that God, the first cause of all else, exists. But what is he like? The attributes of God, efforts to describe him, are the next step. He is intelligent, good, the source of order, our ultimate end, etc. Q: Why is it important to distinguish between natural theology and religious faith? McInerny: Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else. Natural theology is an achievement; faith is a gift. To demand that the mysteries of faith be proved in the usual way, is the beginning of the loss of faith. Q: Why is natural theology important for understanding Catholic doctrine? McInerny: As the Holy Father reminded us in "Fides et Ratio," our faith is reasonable. There is a complementarity between faith and reason, each needs the other. One of the uses of natural theology is precisely to show that it is reasonable to accept truths about God we cannot in this life comprehend. St. Thomas Aquinas observed that the truths about God that philosophers establish are part of what has been revealed, embedded in them, as it were. You cannot believe that God is three persons in one nature without accepting that God exists. Most of us accept revelation as a whole from our mother's knee without distinguishing between the mysteries it conveys and the truths about God that can be known, in the usual sense of know, such as that he is, that he is one, maker of all, etc. Thomas called these knowable truths included in revelation "preambles of faith." If some of the truths God has revealed about himself can be known in the usual sense of know, then it is reasonable to accept the others as intelligible in themselves, however obscure to us in this life. This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology. Q: Why do the claims of natural theology seem to contradict what we know about God from the Bible? How is this problem overcome? McInerny: The rule is that there cannot be a real conflict between faith and reason. Both have their source in God who does not contradict himself. If there really is a conflict -- a contradiction -- between a rational claim and the faith, the rational claim must be false, or not as strong a claim as it purports to be, perhaps only a theory. Sometimes a deeper understanding of Revelation and Scripture has been prompted by difficulties arising from reason, so it is to a degree a two-way street. In the Middle Ages the so-called errors of Aristotle provided Thomas Aquinas with opportunities to exhibit how supple the interaction of reason and faith often is. Aristotle thought the world is eternal, which conflicts with Genesis. Aristotle is wrong here, but Thomas observes that there is no philosophical way to disprove the eternity of the world. Thus, Aristotle's view was false -- as we know from Scripture -- but is nonetheless a plausible philosophical opinion. Not everything that conflicts with the faith can be disproved. Q: Why is there such strong resistance among both theologians and believers in general to the "God of the philosophers"? McInerny: There are many reasons for this, most of them bad. Pascal seemed to think the God of the philosophers was somehow numerically different from the God of Abraham and Isaac. Sometimes I suspect people are put off by the secularizing and skeptical character of much mainstream philosophy. St. Paul warned us not to be misled by philosophy. Kierkegaard, in the 19th century, sought to protect the faith from Kantian and Hegelian efforts to turn it into a philosophical project that would yield its truth to German philosophy professors. Unfortunately, he included natural theology in what he would protect from such presumption. Q: How does natural theology account for and understand atheism? McInerny: In "Gaudium et Spes," we have a remarkable little treatise on atheism and its many sources, most of which are moral. What could be more tragic than for a human being to be cut off from God, to deny his maker? The fathers of the [Second Vatican] Council saw contemporary atheism as a chief obstacle to evangelization. Natural theology gives only indirect comfort to the heart wounded by injustice and misfortune. Unless the pursuit of reason is complemented by the pursuit of virtue it can become a snare and delusion. Our natural theology tradition goes hand in hand with the realization that without the support of religious faith even natural truths becomes obscured and lost. The motivation for natural theology is to be found in the faith itself, as the reference to Romans and Vatican I makes clear. Any suggestion that acceptance of the mysteries of faith is akin to belief in the Great Pumpkin must be thoroughly rejected. Faith has as its object the first truth who is God and its truths, again, cannot be in conflict with truths gained by natural reason. It is noteworthy that in "Fides et Ratio," the Holy Father comes to the defense of reason at a time when many, many philosophers have lost confidence in our ability to attain the truth. The epistemological turn taken by Descartes continues to cut the human mind off from reality. Philosophy becomes interpretation, a subjective account of our experience, unable to reach an objective basis in the things that are. This is why the Thomistic revival inaugurated by Leo XIII remains of vital importance. Q: Does the natural law require the existence of God for its claims to be valid? McInerny: One must distinguish between the content of natural law -- common moral truths -- and the theoretical account of such knowledge. The latter makes reference to God explicitly but this may be only implicit in the ordinary recognition of right and wrong. A philosophy without theism, without natural theology, can never give an adequate account of morality. Natural theology and natural law provide a lingua franca in which believer and nonbeliever can communicate. That is why the Church is such a champion of both. [Courtesy: 19 May, 2003 -- Ralph McInerny on the Importance of Natural Theology, "Faith and the God of the Philosophers", Zenit Catholic News Agency, http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=35786 ] From sligojoeSPAM2@hotmail.com Wed May 21 06:19:39 2003 Dolf, The rest of the world is not really interested in your foolishness. Don't bother cross posting to every news group you can think of. Sure reply to the news group(s) that the message you are replying to included, if necessary, but don't add any additional news groups to the list. I might add you can take tnn.religion.catholic off your list totally. It would be appreciated. It might be even better if you removed alt.recovery.catholicism They have enough problems with out you. Of course you can show how much you really care about the rest of the world, by either doing as I suggest or ignoring it. In either case it will show. -- Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sat May 24 06:45:58 2003 Joseph {increase, addition}, Once again you have contributed nothing, but superficial dribble to this discussion thread so I don't see the need for your response. There is so lack a need, that I haven't even included a contextual reference for reply--Do resist the temptation to indulge further, my participation to these newsgroups and any claim to an Autonomous Hebrew/Christian faith, doesn't need either your individual or institutional permission. It is evident that you lack the prerequisite depth of Autonomous spiritual life to participate within dialog over substantiating Insitutional representations to rational claims made of faith: McInery suggests that: "Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else." [McInerny -- further see below] Although an axiom is generally recognised as truth of an established and universally accepted rule. In logic, mathematics and the sciences, it is essentially a proposition which is assumed without proof for the sake of studying the consequences that follow from it. When Pico della Mirandola similarly declared that "'no science yields greater proof of angels, purgatory, hellfire, and the divinty of Christ than magic and the Kabbalah,' Pope Sixtus IV (1414-84 CE) 'was delighted and had the Kabbalah translated into Latin for the use of students of divinity." [cf: Gustav Davidson's Dictionary of Angels, p 24] McInery also suggests that: "The rule is that there cannot be a real conflict between faith and reason. Both have their source in God who does not contradict himself. If there really is a conflict -- a contradiction -- between a rational claim and the faith, the rational claim must be false, or not as strong a claim as it purports to be, perhaps only a theory." [McInerny -- further see below] Thus we must also accept, that in light of John Reuchlin' (1455-1522 CE) cosmological and christological error which he derived from the Kabbalah, that there is equally no evidence of truth of the Catholic dogmatic claim to a convenant relationship with God as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer: "viz. Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, foregiveness of sins, etc.": According to John Reuchlin's (1455-1522 CE) depiction of Catholic Mysticism and its use of the Hebrew/Greek Kabbalah, it was considered that the period of grace and redemption {HEALTH} by which God revealed himself through five letters, namely the Tetragrammation Yod, He, Vav, He [72J] with the addition of the 21st Hebrew letter Shin, signifying the Logos, thus spelling Yehoshua or Jesus {Law @ Sinai [50J] + Tetractys [72J] + 21 = Year 1999 & Y2K Myth}. In the name of Jesus, which he regarded as the true Miraculous Name, the formerly forbidden name of God now became pronounceable. In Reuchlin's schematic arrangement, which was able to draw for support on the common abbreviation for Jesus in the medieval manuscripts, JHS (a monogram adopted by the Jesuits in the Societies of Jesus or Iota{10} Eta{8} Rho{100} [ = 118 (#6)}, Jewish beliefs in three world ages (Chaos, Torah, Messiah) blended with the tripartite [Jewish idiom 'third or threefold tongue' or 'western' cf: Aramaic Targum Neofiti 1:Genesis 49:23] Christian division of the millennialist school of Joachim of Fiore into a Trinitarian reign of the Father, a reign of the Son, and a reign of the Holy Ghost. [Ref: Encyclopedia Judaica]. Being upon this occasion chief of the Austin Friars, Aegidius of Viterbo (1465-1532 CE) once wrote of Reuchlin , that he "'had blessed him and all mortals by his works.' Philip Beroaldus, the younger, wrote to him, The 'Pope Julius II (as Giuliano Della Rovere 1443-1513 CE, as Pope in 1503) has read your Pythagorean book, as he reads all good books, greedily; then it was read by [13 yo] Cardinal de'Medici (1475-1521 CE, as Pope Leo X in 1513), and I am expecting next to have my turn.' Christian speculation about the Kabbalah continued to develop under the endowment of the Medicis in Florence where, at the Platonic Academy, it was pursued in close connection with the new horizons opened up by the Renaissance in general. These Florentine circles believed they had discovered in the Kabbalah an original divine revelation to mankind that had been lost and would now be restored. With the aid of which it was possible not only to understand the teachings of Pythagoras, Plato, and the Orphics, all of whom they greatly admired, but also the secrets of the Catholic faith. The introduction of the Kabbalah into the Latin tongue and founder of this Christian school of Kabbalah, according to Reuchlin'a comments in 'De arte cabalistica', was the renowned Florentine prodigy Giovanni Pico della Mirandola (1463-94 CE), who vainly believed on the basis of axiology, that he could prove the dogmas of the Trinity and the Incarnation on the basis of Kabbalistic axioms. [Encyclopedia Judaica, © 1971 Keter Publishing House, Ltd, Jerusalem, Israel] - dolf DOLF NOTE: For evidence of Protestantism's contributions to the pursuit of natural theology, one needs look no further than Bayesian Theory. If (H) denotes an Hypothesis and (D) denotes a Data-event, the Bayesian theorem states that: P(H|D) = P(D|H) x P(H) / P(D) If we actually know for certain that Data-event (D) has occurred, P(H|D) becomes our actual degree of belief in the Hypothesis (H). I'm currently tinkering with the idea of a metaphysical project regarding the development a prototype JavaScript Class for Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0 for Windows (and Safari for Macintosh), which I hope demonstrates use of the vMeme/Moment Mathematical/Chronological Kabbalistic model as the underlying epistemological hermeneutic [See related URL as opinion on Letters Patent/Constitution http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html ] and paradigm for a Bayesian (Belief Systems) derived reasoning and decision making model (ie. Grapple as a vMeme/Kabbalistic Framework). Jose Bernardo & Adrian Smith treatise on 'Bayesian Theory' [ISBN 0-471-92416-4] describes Bayesian Statistics as offering a rationalistic theory of personalistics beliefs in contexts of uncertainty, with the central aim of characterising how an individual should act in order to achieve certain kinds of desirable behavioural outcome. The theory establishes that expected utility maximisation as axiomatic approaches to quantifying uncertainty, provides the basis for rational decision making. I imagine that the vMeme/Moment Mathematical/Chronological Kabbalistic model may be considered as a virtual universe or lens by which events are viewed as occurring within a definite time space. Where the probability P of some event E (denoted P(E)) is defined with respect to a "universe" {ie. an implied chronological universe: Telos (122J3W1D as 6,000) = Arch (0) + c²} in the case where the sample space is finite or countably infinite, a probability function can also be defined by its values on the elementary events {e1},{e2},... where S = {e1,e2,...} as a sample space S of all possible elementary events {ie. hemi-sphere sampled chronological universe of action: 3(3²+1)/2 (15 days) ... 9(9²+1/2 = (396 days)} in such a way that P must satisfy any probability axioms as rules of coherence and quantification (viz. Jose Bernardo & Adrian Smith), any implied epistemological hermeneutic usage given by language and number as the Kabbalistic empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive paradigm, in addition to the Kolmogorov probability axioms: AXIOM #1 : 0 <= P(E) <= 1 AXIOM #2 : P(S) = 1 AXIOM #3 : SUM P(Ei) = P(E1 U E2 U...) Bayes' theorem on probability was originally formulated by Thomas Bayes (c. 1702-April 7,1761), a British mathematician and Presbyterian minister. Being published posthumously as "Essay Towards Solving a Problem in the Doctrine of Chances" within the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London of 1763. To grasp the metaphysical intention of such mathematical/philosophical conceptions of Bayesian Theory, it is prudent to consider his other two works published within his lifetime, namely: "Divine Benevolence, or an Attempt to Prove That the Principal End of the Divine Providence and Government is the Happiness of His Creatures (1731 )", and "An Introduction to the Doctrine of Fluxions, and a Defence of the Mathematicians Against the Objections of the Author of the Analyst, in which he defended Isaac Newton's foundations of calculus (1736)". Ralph McInerny as Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University, is erroeneous and ignorant of Hebrew/Gentile 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping as the basis for metaphysical, regulative philosophical and occidental Christianity, when he says "This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology." A Treatise by Protestant Samuele Bacchiocchi was previously awarded the Papal Gregorian Gold Medal, as opinion on the subject of the history and continuing relevance of 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping. As the basis of a natural and everlasting covenant experience with God (YAHWEH), who by such attribution of Nature, is particularised within the Torah and New Testament as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer . In point of fact, no aspect of Catholic Religious Dogma retains any fidelity to principles of regulative philosophy and the metaphysical principles of the Hebrew's Torah (as is evidence by 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath keeping Hebrew/Christians within the New Testament era)-- For this reason, the Catholic diplomatic and Vatican State representative within Australia, Archbishop George Pell will be continue to be pursued for religious slander, and treasonable violation of human and Consitutional Rights. The natural and regulative philosophical/ metaphysical model conveyed by my WWW-page and over which I have exclusive copyright, transcends, sub-ordinates and obsoletes similar claims made by the Roman Papal Authority below. My own work-in-progress as philosophical investigations and discovery of this empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive model as a mathematical {9(9²+1)/2 (369 days) - 3(3²+1)/2 (15 days) = 354 days of typical lunar cycle} & chronological {Telos (6,000 years as 122J3W1D) = Arch (0) + c²} a priori {eg: Tao}. It is established upon the autonomous, regulative philosophical and systematic theological principles espoused by the Letters Patent to the Australian Constitution of 1901 and by specific inclusion Section 116 as the Constitutions religious clause. To convey the exceptional character of this jurisprudent and ethical model for the administration of governance without coercion, I previously quoted Paul Tillich view that, Attempts to elaborate [such] a theology as an empirical-inductive or a meta-physical deductive science, or as a combination of both, have given ample evidence that no such attempt [has in the past] succeed[ed]. In every [other] assumedly scientific theology, there is a point where individual experience, traditional valuation, and personal commitment must decide the issue. This point is often hidden to the authors of such theologies, is obvious to those who look at them with other experiences and other commitments. [Paul Tillich, 1951 University of Chicago, 'Systematic Theology - Reason & Revelation, Being and God'] The following epistemological hermeneutic on the 22 letter Hebrew/26 (21 + 5 Vowel) English language taxonomy {non-Chaldean (and Non-Roman Catholic as Latin only had 23 letters) astrological symbolism} is a further example of the English language's intrinsic connection with these Torah & Hebrew language originating chronological metaphysical/regulative principles that equally gave rise to the Pythagorean Theory of Number: A = {Inner?} B = {Nature amended in its Nature/ Nature contains Nature} C = {Act of Nature/ Nature rejoices in its Nature} D = {Form of Nature/ Nature surmounts Nature} E = {Totality?} F = {Engendering Nature/ Nature amended in its Nature} G = {Transforming Nature/ Act of Nature} H = {Autonomous Nature/ Form of Nature} I = {Sphere?} J = {Totality of Nature/ Engendering Nature} K = {Equity/ Autonomous Nature} L = {Focus = Ratio/ Totality of Nature} M = {Equity} N = {Ratio} O = {Polarity?} P = {Nature Contains Nature} Q = {Nature rejoices in its Nature} R = {Nature surmounts Nature} S = {Nature amended in its Nature} T = {Act of Nature} U = {Harmony?} V = {Form of Nature} W = {Engendering Nature} X = {Transforming Nature} Y = {Autonomous Nature} Z = {Totality of Nature} [Ref: Enclosed Folio entitled: The Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles which underpin the Letters Patent to Australia's Constitution http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html ] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ ROME, MAY 19, 2003 (Zenit.org) .- In an age of skepticism, philosophy is often viewed with a suspicious eye by people of religious faith. However, philosophy has always been an integral part of the life of the Church as outlined by John Paul II in his encyclical " Fides et Ratio ." Ralph McInerny is using his appointment as the Eugene McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University to discuss the branch of philosophy that searches for God, known as natural theology. He recently shared his thoughts with ZENIT on this topic. McInerny is a professor of philosophy at the University of Notre Dame. He will present a public lecture at the Gregorian on May 23 entitled, "From Shadows and Images to the Truth." Q: What is natural theology? In other words, explain what it means that it is an article of faith that God can be known by reason apart from faith. McInerny: It is, by another name, philosophical theology; that is, the knowledge of God that can be attained from common human experience of the world, without dependence on religious faith. Plato, and especially Aristotle, in pre-Christian times, carried the theology of the philosophers to heights which are still cause for marvel. The whole point of classical philosophy -- the love of wisdom -- was to attain such knowledge of God as is possible for the human mind. It is in contemplating God that the most perfect happiness is found. So natural theology is not just a special set of topics, but the key to philosophy. The Catholic tradition sees in Romans 1:19-20 the scriptural basis for what was defined by Vatican I, namely, that it is "de fide" that God can be known by natural powers of man unaided by faith. Q: Does natural theology aim to prove the existence of God? McInerny: That is the first step, of course, and proving the existence of God is no easy matter. There is a garden-variety certainty that most people have that the universe is governed by its Maker and that we are answerable to him. Philosophical proofs seek to make it logically inescapable that God, the first cause of all else, exists. But what is he like? The attributes of God, efforts to describe him, are the next step. He is intelligent, good, the source of order, our ultimate end, etc. Q: Why is it important to distinguish between natural theology and religious faith? McInerny: Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else. Natural theology is an achievement; faith is a gift. To demand that the mysteries of faith be proved in the usual way, is the beginning of the loss of faith. Q: Why is natural theology important for understanding Catholic doctrine? McInerny: As the Holy Father reminded us in "Fides et Ratio," our faith is reasonable. There is a complementarity between faith and reason, each needs the other. One of the uses of natural theology is precisely to show that it is reasonable to accept truths about God we cannot in this life comprehend. St. Thomas Aquinas observed that the truths about God that philosophers establish are part of what has been revealed, embedded in them, as it were. You cannot believe that God is three persons in one nature without accepting that God exists. Most of us accept revelation as a whole from our mother's knee without distinguishing between the mysteries it conveys and the truths about God that can be known, in the usual sense of know, such as that he is, that he is one, maker of all, etc. Thomas called these knowable truths included in revelation "preambles of faith." If some of the truths God has revealed about himself can be known in the usual sense of know, then it is reasonable to accept the others as intelligible in themselves, however obscure to us in this life. This saves us from the fideism that characterizes the Protestantism that rejects natural theology. Q: Why do the claims of natural theology seem to contradict what we know about God from the Bible? How is this problem overcome? McInerny: The rule is that there cannot be a real conflict between faith and reason. Both have their source in God who does not contradict himself. If there really is a conflict -- a contradiction -- between a rational claim and the faith, the rational claim must be false, or not as strong a claim as it purports to be, perhaps only a theory. Sometimes a deeper understanding of Revelation and Scripture has been prompted by difficulties arising from reason, so it is to a degree a two-way street. In the Middle Ages the so-called errors of Aristotle provided Thomas Aquinas with opportunities to exhibit how supple the interaction of reason and faith often is. Aristotle thought the world is eternal, which conflicts with Genesis. Aristotle is wrong here, but Thomas observes that there is no philosophical way to disprove the eternity of the world. Thus, Aristotle's view was false -- as we know from Scripture -- but is nonetheless a plausible philosophical opinion. Not everything that conflicts with the faith can be disproved. Q: Why is there such strong resistance among both theologians and believers in general to the "God of the philosophers"? McInerny: There are many reasons for this, most of them bad. Pascal seemed to think the God of the philosophers was somehow numerically different from the God of Abraham and Isaac. Sometimes I suspect people are put off by the secularizing and skeptical character of much mainstream philosophy. St. Paul warned us not to be misled by philosophy. Kierkegaard, in the 19th century, sought to protect the faith from Kantian and Hegelian efforts to turn it into a philosophical project that would yield its truth to German philosophy professors. Unfortunately, he included natural theology in what he would protect from such presumption. Q: How does natural theology account for and understand atheism? McInerny: In "Gaudium et Spes," we have a remarkable little treatise on atheism and its many sources, most of which are moral. What could be more tragic than for a human being to be cut off from God, to deny his maker? The fathers of the [Second Vatican] Council saw contemporary atheism as a chief obstacle to evangelization. Natural theology gives only indirect comfort to the heart wounded by injustice and misfortune. Unless the pursuit of reason is complemented by the pursuit of virtue it can become a snare and delusion. Our natural theology tradition goes hand in hand with the realization that without the support of religious faith even natural truths becomes obscured and lost. The motivation for natural theology is to be found in the faith itself, as the reference to Romans and Vatican I makes clear. Any suggestion that acceptance of the mysteries of faith is akin to belief in the Great Pumpkin must be thoroughly rejected. Faith has as its object the first truth who is God and its truths, again, cannot be in conflict with truths gained by natural reason. It is noteworthy that in "Fides et Ratio," the Holy Father comes to the defense of reason at a time when many, many philosophers have lost confidence in our ability to attain the truth. The epistemological turn taken by Descartes continues to cut the human mind off from reality. Philosophy becomes interpretation, a subjective account of our experience, unable to reach an objective basis in the things that are. This is why the Thomistic revival inaugurated by Leo XIII remains of vital importance. Q: Does the natural law require the existence of God for its claims to be valid? McInerny: One must distinguish between the content of natural law -- common moral truths -- and the theoretical account of such knowledge. The latter makes reference to God explicitly but this may be only implicit in the ordinary recognition of right and wrong. A philosophy without theism, without natural theology, can never give an adequate account of morality. Natural theology and natural law provide a lingua franca in which believer and nonbeliever can communicate. That is why the Church is such a champion of both. [Courtesy: 19 May, 2003 -- Ralph McInerny on the Importance of Natural Theology, "Faith and the God of the Philosophers", Zenit Catholic News Agency, http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=35786 ] From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sat May 24 07:56:43 2003 Dear Darren, To what degree did childhood experiences of sexual abuse as evidence of clerical indulgences, bring about the rise of religious fundamentalism and political movements such as Luther's Protestant Reformation and 20th century Facism with is "gender and sexuality" laws imposed upon the sovereignty of being of 7th day Sabbath-keeping Jews? How too, excepting being the product of affection from paedophiles, did de'Medici (1475-1521 CE) become so acquainted with the Roman Catholic clergy that by 13 yo he became Cardinal and Pope Leo X in 1513? Eugene McInerny, as apologist to John Paul II's encyclical 'Fides et Ratio' {Faith and Reason} and guest 2003 McCarthy Lecturer at the Gregorian University, suggests that: "Faith consists of truths about God accepted on the authority of his revelation, whose interpretation is in the custody of the Catholic Church. Truths like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, etc., cannot be proved by appeal to the ordinary canons of proof. They can be proved to have been revealed, but that is something else." [McInerny -- further see below] Pico della Mirandola (1463-94 CE) similarly declared that "'no science yields greater proof of angels, purgatory, hellfire, and the divinty of Christ than magic and the Kabbalah,' and Pope Sixtus IV (1414-84 CE) 'was delighted and had the Kabbalah translated into Latin for the use of students of divinity." [cf: Gustav Davidson's Dictionary of Angels, p 24] Thus we must also accept, that in light of John Reuchlin' (1455-1522 CE) cosmological and christological error which he derived from the Hebrew/Greek Kabbalah, that there is equally no evidence of truth of the Catholic dogmatic claim to a convenant relationship with God as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer--"viz. Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, foregiveness of sins, etc.": Being upon this occasion chief of the Austin Friars, Aegidius of Viterbo (1465-1532 CE) once wrote of Reuchlin, that he "'had blessed him and all mortals by his works.' Philip Beroaldus, the younger, wrote to him, The 'Pope Julius II (as Giuliano Della Rovere 1443-1513 CE, as Pope in 1503) has read your Pythagorean book, as he reads all good books, greedily; then it was read by [13 yo] Cardinal de'Medici (1475-1521 CE, as Pope Leo X in 1513), and I am expecting next to have my turn.' Christian speculation about the Kabbalah continued to develop under the endowment of the Medicis in Florence where, at the Platonic Academy, it was pursued in close connection with the new horizons opened up by the Renaissance in general. These Florentine circles believed they had discovered in the Kabbalah an original divine revelation to mankind that had been lost and would now be restored. With the aid of which it was possible not only to understand the teachings of Pythagoras, Plato, and the Orphics, all of whom they greatly admired, but also the secrets of the Catholic faith. The introduction of the Kabbalah into the Latin tongue and founder of this Christian school of Kabbalah, according to Reuchlin'a comments in 'De arte cabalistica', was the renowned Florentine prodigy Giovanni Pico della Mirandola (1463-94 CE), who vainly believed on the basis of axiology, that he could prove the dogmas of the Trinity and the Incarnation on the basis of Kabbalistic axioms. [Encyclopedia Judaica, © 1971 Keter Publishing House, Ltd, Jerusalem, Israel] - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html "Cosmicosis" wrote in message news:3ece45a2_1@news.iprimus.com.au... To the Australian Head of State, The Governor General Dr. Peter Hollingworth As the tumult surrounding your position unfolds before the eyes of the Australian people, there is a silver lining. Your handling of child sexual abuse by clergy, whilst Anglican Archbishop of Brisbane was disastrous to say the least, but it must be said that almost all child sexual abuse is and has been handled in a manner that is less than deserving. Our society, in fact almost all the worlds societies are grappling with this shameful act, it is obviously something that must be spoken about and dealt with in a manner that will be to the benefit of our communities and those who have been abused. This is not just a matter for the Church, as a survivor of child sexual abuse myself, I have loved seeing the problem making headlines and almost being forced upon the public. I firmly believe that prospective child abusers can be helped and the more the problem is spoken about the better for the wellbeing of abusers and those that they abuse. I suffered in silence for many years, trying to commit suicide often, and having no love of self to help me through it. It was to hard a subject to broach with people, and almost never spoken about in the majority of peoples lives. I would hope that this can change. As one man of God to another, I would say to you that the church must see that this is a worldwide problem and not just within the church. Child sexual abuse occurs in all our communities and in all levels, we must begin to openly discuss and deal with this scourge. It would be a shame to have your tenure as Governor General to end with these issues quickly to become old news there after. Would it not be better for the Head of State of Australia, embroiled as you are in this situation, to take the lead in admitting your folly and doing all in your power to make our nation deal with this scourge in a manner that it truly deserves. Your position could be the best thing to happen for child sexual abuse in centuries. I truly believe that your redemption could be found in leading Australia to an open, honest and caring discussion of child sexual abuse. Spear- heading education programmes, community announcements, and what ever other ways in which you may find that this matter can truly be dealt with in a manner pleasing to The Most High God of Israel. May God be with you during this time, and if you continue as Governor General, may the Spirit of the Most High God guide you into what I believe would be the best thing to happen with this problem. His Servant Darren Robert Brown Perth, Western Australia G-G considers resignation By Dennis Shanahan, Steve Lewis and Gosia Kaszubska May 24, 2003 THE future of Peter Hollingworth as Governor-General remains in doubt despite sensational rape claims against the former priest being dropped. Dr Hollingworth is considering his position as Governor-General amid a chorus of calls for his resignation or dismissal, and no vigorous support from the Howard Government. http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6484980%255E2,00.html -- Take SPAMSTOP out of email to reply cosmicosis02SPAMSTOP@excite.com http://www.cosmicosis.itgo.com *** Even if you don't believe, You're still within the; World Wide Weave From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Sun May 25 19:38:37 2003 Chris, I'm wondering then you think of my GRAPPLE -- Epistemelogical Hermeneutical as a empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive paradigm--And whether as a cosmological {chronological 7th day creationist}, ontological, epistemological and Christological viewpoint it has any defects as equally a creationist and evolutionary {entelichy} view? SEE here for Image of Grapple Epistemology Hermeneutical http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/venn.gif This model maintains a consistency with the work of Chris Cowan co-author with Psychiatrist Don Beck of "Spiral Dynamics -- Mastering values, leadership and change" contained on the Spiral Dynamics WWW-page: "Those who have not recently visited Dolf Boek's work will find much new at http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos. Given the situation in Israel/Palestine and all of the religious undercurrents in today's world, Dolf's perspective offers yet another way to view the forces influencing human nature." [Ref: http://www.spiraldynamics.com/news.htm ] Jose Bernardo & Adrian Smith treatise on 'Bayesian Theory' [ISBN 0-471-92416-4] describes Bayesian Statistics as offering a rationalistic theory of personalistics beliefs in contexts of uncertainty, with the central aim of characterising how an individual should act in order to achieve certain kinds of desirable behavioural outcome. The theory establishes that expected utility maximisation as axiomatic approaches to quantifying uncertainty, provides the basis for rational decision making. The vMeme/Moment Mathematical/Chronological Kabbalistic model may be considered as a virtual universe or lens by which events are viewed as occurring within a definite time space. Where the probability P of some event E (denoted P(E)) is defined with respect to a "universe" {ie. an implied chronological universe: Telos (122J3W1D as 6,000) = Arch (0) + c²} in the case where the sample space is finite or countably infinite, a probability function can also be defined by its values on the elementary events {e1},{e2},... where S = {e1,e2,...} as a sample space S of all possible elementary events {ie. hemi-sphere sampled chronological universe of action: 3(3²+1)/2 (15 days) ... 9(9²+1/2 = (396 days)} in such a way that P must satisfy any probability axioms as rules of coherence and quantification (viz. Jose Bernardo & Adrian Smith), any implied epistemological hermeneutic usage given by language and number as the Kabbalistic empirical-inductive and meta-physical deductive paradigm, in addition to the Kolmogorov probability axioms: AXIOM #1 : 0 <= P(E) <= 1 AXIOM #2 : P(S) = 1 AXIOM #3 : SUM P(Ei) = P(E1 U E2 U...) Bayes' theorem on probabilitywas originally formulated by Thomas Bayes (c. 1702-April 7,1761), a British mathematician and Presbyterian minister. Being published posthumously as "Essay Towards Solving a Problem in the Doctrine of Chances" within the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London of 1763. To grasp the metaphysical intention of such mathematical/philosophical conceptions of Bayesian Theory, it is prudent to consider his other two works published within his lifetime, namely: "Divine Benevolence, or an Attempt to Prove That the Principal End of the Divine Providence and Government is the Happiness of His Creatures (1731 )", and "An Introduction to the Doctrine of Fluxions {ie. the derivative relative to the time, the rate of change of a varying quantity}, and a Defence of the Mathematicians Against the Objections of the Author of the Analyst, in which he defended Isaac Newton's foundations of calculus (1736)". - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html#AXIOM4 "Chris Ho-Stuart" wrote in message news:3ed0862e@news.qut.edu.au... I shall continue to respond in any case. My aim -- which I think I am achieving -- is to show clearly the defects and problems in the creationist view, and the various misrepresentations and distortions which are used to support it. I would like this to be better known and understood within the church. There are many young people who, thanks to the efforts of creationists, end up thinking that science and Christianity are in conflict. I would like to see more people within the church willing and able address this matter. I also think it is somewhat amusing that Gladys focuses so much on evolution. The fact is that the young earth creationst position is inconsistent also with elementary geology and astronomy; and that the application of physics and chemistry and indeed almost any field of empirical study will somewhere along the line also cause problems for creationists. It is not just evolution they reject. Ultimately, it is pretty much the whole edifice of modern science. [snipped for context] From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Fri May 30 11:58:09 2003 Gladys is seems to me, that you are both incapable of giving rational substance to the Christian faith as justification for your abberation of the Bible's moral code {ie. 7th day as Sabbath} by which God (ie. YAHWEH} as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer is particularised, by substituting your own moral code as hymeneal occultism and paltry meagre and mean substitute for Grace and Redemption! No further response is necessary as it would seem there is no common ground between your insubstantial claim to Christianity and mine! - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "Gladys Swager" wrote in message news:8198fb67.0305291613.2f61dbc3@posting.google.com... Dolf, it seems to me that you are so involved in your academic studies of the Bible and ancient writings which, it would seem to me, you 'cut and paste' in a very short time that you just can't see the simplicity of the Christian gospel. It would seem to me you have been influenced by the writings of Mrs White who rescued those who had accepted that Jesus Christ would return to earth about 1843/1844 and from which the Seventh Day Adventist denomination was formed - a group with many today who do give fine service in a community, but who follow certain legaisms from Judaism, mainly the insistence on Saturday, as the day of religious observance. In the old Covenant of the Old Testament God rested from His work of Creation on the seventh day. In the New Covenant of the New Testament Jesus rose from the dead on the first day matching the first day of Creation when God said, "Let there be light". Jesus said that He was the Light of the World, the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one can come to Father - God Almighty - the Triune God of Father, Son and Holy Spirit - three-in-one - except through Jesus. For by grace are we saved through faith, and that not of ourselves (ie any good that we can do), it is the gift of God as we accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour. He is the only mediator between us and God. Gladys From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Tue Jun 24 18:25:30 2003 Dear Prince of Darkness, As usual you say nothing. Without acknowledging their dependency on Judaism as Christianity, Sunday sacred Christianity has with the reprise of Y2K, no basis in truth. And as hymeneal occultism is simply: marriage and given in marriage {ie. Mary worship} which is expressly condemned within Scripture as a violation of the Everlasting Covenant God made with Israel--The Egyptian basis to much of what today passes itself off as Christianity, is by contrast a deification of death! With the experience of religious vilification going on in Australian at present where Institutional clergy have indulged themselves on the misfortunes of others which the clergy themselves have in many instances promulgated, I think it wise for you to cease telling stories of contrived religiousity and address the more important life issues. - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "Rowland Croucher" wrote in message news:3ef802a3$0$30817$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... Gladys, I've been following your and Chris's (and others') posts and responses for some time, and forgive me for wondering if there isn't another subject you might like to introduce... I admire your persistence and Chris's patience... but with respect 'cos no-one was there at the proton (or is yet at the eschaton) many of our discussions about these tend to go 'round in circles... PS If Adam didn't have a navel were there also no growth-rings on the trees in the Garden of Eden? Oops... don't respond to that or we might have another 100 posts on it :-( -- Shalom! Rowland Croucher http://www.pastornet.net.au/jmm/index.htm (Now 10,100 + articles!) From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Wed May 28 21:21:17 2003 The bible gives it thusly: BEGINNING... [Genesis 1:1] As it is written, Moses attempts to resolve the prophetic word as Hebrew taxonomy {Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days [Genesis 49:1]} with its space/time cosmology, ontology, epistemology and Christology: "Philip {warlike; a lover of horses} found Nathanael {the gift of God} and said to him, "We have found Him of whom Moses {taken out; drawn forth} in the law, and also the prophets, wrote-JESUS {He is saved/A savior; a deliverer} OF NAZARETH {one chosen or set apart; separated; crowned; sanctified}:, the son of Joseph {increase; addition}" [1982 Nelson Thomas, New King James John 1:45] "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. I do not receive honor from men. But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. I have come in My Fathers name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" [© 1982 Nelson Thomas, New King James John 5:39-47] Here is a Javascript fragment which illustrates running multiple instances of a class function as grouped and timer Javascript sub-functions within Microsoft Internet Explorer Vsn 6.0 by using the IFRAME feature--Not that you'd need 81 sessions going at once, but it I'm interested in studying the dynamic process between them as a vMeme/Moment Kabbalistic Paradigm for hosting Bayesian (Belief Systems) reasoning and decision making model. SEE here for Image of Grapple Epistemology Hermeneutic Paradigm http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/venn.gif I have uploaded to my www-page URL a html file which illustrates this by assigning one of 22 values to a series {1, 2, 3, ... 200, 300, 400} together with a random generated interval. In nearly all instances, the weighting value given the square, overides the interval value. The vMeme color sequence is assigned at the conclusion of the timer function http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/frameproc.html - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html#AXIOM4 "Rowland Croucher" wrote in message news:3ed4896f$0$1028$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... More important questions (for this Christian) are 'Who?' and 'Why?' The Bible doesn't address the questions 'When?' and 'How?' (Retreats hastily :-) [snipped for context] -- Shalom! Rowland Croucher http://www.pastornet.net.au/jmm/index.htm (9900+ articles) From hunter1@arach.net.au Fri Jun 06 09:01:21 2003 Good ol Dolf kept making threats to take legal action against people, and kept complaining to ISP's about people, which he ended up doing to me (wasn't any great drama when I pointed out what I was replying to) so I thought I'd put the shoe on the other foot and point out to BigPond his breaches of their Acceptable Usage Policy and point out to AXA the dafamatory crap he was publicly spouting about them (people in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones), perhaps one or the other decided to knock him on the head??? Good riddance. Barry OGrady wrote: > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > (reason: 550 recipient unknown) > > (reason: 550 recipient unknown) > > (reason: 550 recipient unknown) > > -Barry > ======== > Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og > Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information. > Voicemail/fax number +14136227640 From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Tue Jun 10 04:01:34 2003 "LoneRiver" loneriver@iprimus.com.au Perhaps you are confusing the laws and the comments within the Scriptures which condemns astrological occultism that as Sunday sacred hymenealism {arsenokoites} is often mistaken so for Christianity. Having denied seventh-day Sabbath as attribution of Nature by which God {YAHWEH} as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer is particularised and the means by which we may participate within his Everlasting Covenant, you instead replace it with your own claimed morality sustained by only an allegorical view of the bible-- have you not construct your own disease {Malakia}? - dolf "LoneRiver" wrote in message news:3ee3dcb5_1@news.iprimus.com.au... Becoming a homosexual is a choice based on sexual preference. Being Jewish is following God and is therefore a choice that pleases God. Being homosexual is not following God (in fact is the going against God) and is therefore a choice that does not please God. [snipped for context] Having said that homosexuals are not to be hated, they are to be loved and accepted, only God has the right to judge, and He loves the person (may be not the act/sin) He sent His Son to die for homosexuals as well as heterosexuals. The important fact to remember here is WE ALL SIN AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. Homosexual sin is just as offensive to God as witchcraft, anti-Jew, murder, theft and homophobia (hating homosexuals). I find it ironic that homosexuals are more accepting and loving than most heterosexual Christians who are supposed to be accepting and loving, hate in any form displeases God, we are called to LOVE OUR NEIGHBOURS AS OUR SELVES. There was no small print saying unless they are: gay, black, Jew, thieves, sinners etc... If that were the case we would all be in trouble because we all act in ways that offend God (thankfully He still Loves us all). LoneRiver -- Baruch Habba Bashem Adonai Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord "Kristian Fletcher" wrote in message news:3ee347ba$0$13752$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > For anyone interested... > > QUT Queer Department & Modern Theatre Company present > > Religion / Homosexuality Forum > Friday 13th June 2003 1pm > QUT Gardens Point Campus > Kim Beazley Room, Y Block > > We would like to raise some issues. I just found this website which I find > offensive beyound words - > http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hate.html > > I think something needs to be said. > > This forum is organised in conjunction with "Corpus Christi" which will play > at Brisbane Powerhouse from June 12th - 21st (www.brisbanepowerhouse.org) > > I look forward to seeing you there! > > From Dolf_BOEK@hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 20:03:47 2003 To be sure God, doesn't change, that is why the Sabbath keeping Eunuch is given a name above that of sons and daughters--And that is why your soul wont enjoy Eternity. However, you should cease giving pretension to talking on behalf of YAHWEH. The following comment from Rabbi Kaplan's book on meditative Kabbalah provides the missing link {ie. use of color and magic squares as a kabbalistic conception} in support of my vMeme interpretation of Hebrew/Greek/English letters as being connected to number and specifically the magic square. This appears to be the top most {ie. the first cause} kabbalistic mathematical model. You might be mistaken in believing that the Muslim/Israel conflict is a religious one--From this you may deduce that there is NO SUBSTANCE to Muslim and Sunday sabbatarian Christian claims to religious belief, because the Telos apogee has occurred and they are bound by oath to observe these principles. There time is past and they don't want peace and yet keep claiming their struggle a religious clause--I think it best to consider that the top Hamas leaders will continue to liquidate their believes because their claim to spiritual belief is false and and the populace is placed in a grave misapprehension. As an institutional claim to religious belief, the Hamas and other Muslim extremist groups no different to Adolf Hitler. One of the most mysterious Kabbalists of the Sixteenth Century was Rabbi Joseph Tzayach (1505-1573), who was also one of the leading rabbinical figures of that period. Aside from his many mystical works, a large body of Responsa exist from him in manuscript, and he is known to have corresponded with the leading religious leaders of that time. Rabbi Joseph Tzayach was apparently born in Jerusalem, and from there he was chosen to serve as rabbi in Damascus. There were two Jewish communities in Damascus, one being an immigrants community from Spain (following their expulsion under Inquisition from the Roman Catholic Emperor of Spain), consisting of some five hundred families, and the other being the native communities, known as the Mostarabians, who had been there from ancient times. It was the Mostarabians community that chose Tzayach as its leader, but it seems that he learned many ancient mysteries from them. Tzayach commuted frequently between Damascus and Jerusalem, and we find him in the Holy City on numerous occasions between 1538CE and 1555CE. It was in Jerusalem that he wrote his main Kabbalistic work, Evven HaShoham (The Onyx Stone) in 1538CE. A year later, he wrote a second book, Tzeror HaChaim (The Binding of Life), a mystical commentary on the Talmud. His Sheirit Yosef (Remnant of Joseph) an expansion of the Evven HaShoham, was written in 1549CE, also in Jerusalem. Rabbi Joseph Tzayach apparently was influenced by Abulafia's school (A prophet with messianic overtones, whose Kabbalistic works some in his time, considered heresy and which remain in mainly in cipher and are largely unpublished in English), and many ideas that he discusses seem to be taken verbatim from Abulafia's writings. Thus, for example, Abulafia warns that one striving for the highest level {ie. the First Cause/Principle}, which is called the Crown, or Keter (Kay, Tau, Resh), must he careful, lest he be 'cut off' (Karet, Kaf, Resh, tau). He notes that both words contain the same letters, and the exact same idea is also mentioned a number of times in Tzayach's works. Even more obvious is an interpretation of the Hebrew word for 'Letters', which is Otiot (Aleph, Vav, Tau, Yod, Vav, Tau) [a chronological concept of times/seasons which is seemingly equivalent to the term 'oth-signs/Greek semeion used within the Dead Seas Scrolls]. The word can be divided into two, spelling out Tau Alef--'a line of Alef', and Tau Yod--'a line of Yod (=10).' This is said to be indicative of a strong relationship between the letters of the alphabet and the ten digits, which are ten units. A virtually identical discussion of this is found both in Abulafia's Or HaSekhel (Light of the Intellect) and in Tzayach's Tzeror HaChaim (The Binding of Life). Tzayach's most important work is his Evven HaShoham, literally 'the Onyx Stone'. As he mentions in his introduction, the onyx paralleled the tribe of Joseph in Aaron's breastplate, and the title therefore alludes to the name of the author. He also notes that the word Shoham (Shin, He, Mem) has the same letters as HaShem (He, Shin, Mem), meaning 'the Name', since this is the main point of the book. Even more fascinating is Tzayach's discussion of magic squares. These numerical arrays were well-known in ancient India and China, and were introduced to the western world in the early 1400's by Moschopulus of Constantinople. It appears that they were also known to the ancient Kabbalists. They were discussed in a number of places in Kabbalistic literature, and when engraved on metal or stone, are often used as amulets. Tzayach himself discusses such uses, and many references can be found in Shoshan Yesod Olam and in Toledot Adam. In his Sh'nei Luchot HaB'rit (Two Tablets of the Covenant), Rabbi Isaiah Horowitz (1560-1630CE), a major figure in Kabbalah, discusses a magic square in relation to the mysteries of creation. For example of such use see: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html#AXIOM4 The most elementary magic square is of the third order, that is, it contains three digits to a side. It therefore contains the first nine digits, and its usual form is 2 | 9 | 4 --------- 7 | 5 | 3 --------- 6 | 1 | 8 The reader will immediately notice that every line, row and diagonal has the same sum, namely fifteen. This is the simplest magic square, since one of the first order is a simple digit, and it is impossible to construct one of the second order. Tzayach discusses the relationship between magic squares and the [seven visible planets: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon], and his system is very similar to that on ancient astrology and alchemy. This is certainly no coincidence, since both lay claim to a very ancient tradition. MAGIC SQUARES ORDER CORRESPONDENCE SUM OF SIDE = n(n2+1)/2 or (n3+n)/2 (n) 3 Saturn 15 4 Jupiter 34 5 Mars 65 6 Sun 111 7 Venus 175 8 Mercury 260 9 Moon 369 [*] 10 Keter-Crown 505 {Nature contains Nature} 11 Chokhmah-Wisdom 671 {Nature rejoices in its Nature} 12 Binah-Understanding 860 {Nature surmounts Nature} 13 Chesed-Love 1105 {Nature amended in its Nature} 14 Gevurah-Strength 1379 {Act of Nature} 15 ????????????????? 1695 16 Tiferet-Beauty {Form of Nature} 2056 17 Netzach-Victory 2465 {Engendering Nature} 18 Hod-Splendor 2925 {Transforming Nature} 19 Yesod-Foundation 3439 {Autonomous Nature} 20 Malkhut-Kingship 4010 {Totality of Nature} In Tzayach's system, however, we do not stop with the planets, but continue and proceed to the Sefirot. These are represented by magic squares of the order ten to twenty. These magic squares are apparently used for a very special meditation, where each horizontal row is a 'house', while each number in this row is a 'room'. Thus, in the magic square of the tenth order, which represents Keter-Crown, the first 'room' of the first 'house' is 1, the second is 2, the third is 98, and the fourth is 97. MAGIC SQUARE OF ORDER TEN CORRESPONDING TO KETER-CROWN 1 | 2 | 98 | 97 | 96 | 5 | 94 | 93 | 9 | 10 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- 90 | 12 | 13 | 87 | 86 | 85 | 84 | 18 | 19 | 11 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- 80 | 79 | 23 | 24 | 76 | 75 | 27 | 28 | 22 | 71 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- 70 | 69 | 68 | 34 | 36 | 35 | 37 | 33 | 62 | 61 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- 41 | 59 | 58 | 57 | 45 | 46 | 44 | 53 | 52 | 50 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- 51 | 49 | 48 | 47 | 55 | 56 | 54 | 43 | 42 | 60 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- 31 | 32 | 38 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 63 | 39 | 40 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- 30 | 29 | 73 | 74 | 25 | 26 | 77 | 78 | 72 | 21 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- 20 | 82 | 83 | 14 | 16 | 15 | 17 | 88 | 89 | 81 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- 91 | 92 | 3 | 7 | 6 | 95 | 4 | 8 | 99 |100 ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- The magic square for Keter-Crown is presented in three places in his works. He warns against trying to change or improve the squares, as some tried to do. He writes that he 'received this from my master, of blessed memory. One should not add to the squares that we have drawn, since they allude to the highest and most concealed concepts, as we have explained. One who attempts to improve them, actually diminishes them, for he does not consider the glory of God. Each house and each room has a specific function, but this I did not learn from my master.' In a number of places, Tzayach stops just short of explicitly explaining exactly how these squares are used. In one place he states, 'If you look carefully at the order of the numbers in the houses and rooms, you will understand a wondrous concept regarding the mystery of the order of Atzilut {Nearness as the universe of Sefirot-numbers}. But I do not have the authority to reveal the reasons for the numbers associated with each room. He concludes, 'This is among the deepest mysteries of the highest Merkava. It cannot be delinated by books or scrolls. The mysterious reason for this is that they are cycled by the Infinite Being {Ain Sof}, where no eye can penetrate/ May He and His name be blessed. But from what I have written, the intelligent will understand.' There is considerable discussion as to whether one should meditate alone, or together with an instructor. The Baal Shem Tov explicitly taught that one should always meditate with a companion, since this can otherwise by very dangerous. Tzayach anticipates this, and writes, 'It is necessary for the initiate's master to stand over him the first time, until he becomes accustomed [to enter these states. His master] can help bring him back to his normal state of consciousness. [One must do this] until he is properly initiated into these new states [of consciousness], lest he gaze and lose his mind [like Ben Zoma]. Finally, Tzayach was probably the last Kabbalist to advocate the use of the prophetic position, where one places his head between his knees. This position was used by Elijah on Moutn Carmel, and occasionally, by the sages of the Talmud. It is also mentioned by Hai Gaon (939-1038 CE), head of the Babylonian academy at Pumbedita. Some five hundred years later, Tzayach discusses the same position. Speaking of individuals who meditate (hitboded), he says, 'They bend themselves like reeds, placing their heads between their knees until all their faculties are nullified. As a result of this lack of sensation, they see the Supernal Light, with true vision and not with allegory.' This position is also associated with meditation on the houses and rooms in the magic squares. He writes, 'If you wish to enter into their mystery, concentrate on all that we have said. Contemplate (hitbonen) the rooms that we have discussed, together with their lights, colors, and letter combinations. Mediate (hithoded) on this for a while, either briefly or at leght. Begin by placing your head between your knees.' [Aryeh Kaplan, ©1982, 'Meditation and Kabbalah', p 158-165] - dolf "LoneRiver" wrote in message news:<3ee567b5_1@news.iprimus.com.au>... > God does not change... > > Hebrews 13:8. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. > > ...He is the same today as He was yesterday and He will be the same > tomorrow... > Just because the debt has been paid does not mean we can go on using the > credit card. God still hates sin, sin still separates us from God. The Old > Testament does not become obsolete because of the New Testament, it only > changes the price we must pay for our sin. > > Leviticus 18:22. "`Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is > detestable. > > IT IS STILL DETESTABLE TODAY !!! > > If you disagree then you must also disagree with this statement: > > Leviticus 18:23 "`Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile > yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have > sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. > > God is clear on this one... > > LoneRiver > > -- > Baruch Habba Bashem Adonai > Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord > > "Dolf Boek" wrote in message > news:2Y3Fa.912$FL1.15148@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > > "LoneRiver" loneriver@iprimus.com.au > > > > Perhaps you are confusing the laws and the comments within the Scriptures > > which condemns astrological occultism that as Sunday sacred hymenealism > > {arsenokoites} is often mistaken so for Christianity. > > > > Having denied seventh-day Sabbath as attribution of Nature by which God > > {YAHWEH} as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer is particularised and the > means > > by which we may participate within his Everlasting Covenant, you instead > > replace it with your own claimed morality sustained by only an allegorical > > view of the bible-- have you not construct your own disease {Malakia}? > > > > - dolf > > > > "LoneRiver" wrote in message > > news:3ee3dcb5_1@news.iprimus.com.au... > > Becoming a homosexual is a choice based on sexual preference. > > Being Jewish is following God and is therefore a choice that pleases God. > > Being homosexual is not following God (in fact is the going against God) > and > > is therefore a choice that does not please God. > > > > [snipped for context] > > > > Having said that homosexuals are not to be hated, they are to be loved and > > accepted, only God has the right to judge, and He loves the person (may be > > not the act/sin) He sent His Son to die for homosexuals as well as > > heterosexuals. The important fact to remember here is WE ALL SIN AND FALL > > SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. Homosexual sin is just as offensive to God as > > witchcraft, anti-Jew, murder, theft and homophobia (hating homosexuals). > > > > I find it ironic that homosexuals are more accepting and loving than most > > heterosexual Christians who are supposed to be accepting and loving, hate > in > > any form displeases God, we are called to LOVE OUR NEIGHBOURS AS OUR > SELVES. > > There was no small print saying unless they are: gay, black, Jew, thieves, > > sinners etc... If that were the case we would all be in trouble because > we > > all act in ways that offend God (thankfully He still Loves us all). > > > > LoneRiver > > > > -- > > Baruch Habba Bashem Adonai > > Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord > > > > "Kristian Fletcher" wrote in message > > news:3ee347ba$0$13752$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > > > For anyone interested... > > > > > > QUT Queer Department & Modern Theatre Company present > > > > > > Religion / Homosexuality Forum > > > Friday 13th June 2003 1pm > > > QUT Gardens Point Campus > > > Kim Beazley Room, Y Block > > > > > > We would like to raise some issues. I just found this website which I > find > > > offensive beyound words - > > > http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hate.html > > > > > > I think something needs to be said. > > > > > > This forum is organised in conjunction with "Corpus Christi" which will > play > > > at Brisbane Powerhouse from June 12th - 21st > (www.brisbanepowerhouse.org) > > > > > > I look forward to seeing you there! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From god_fre_jones@hotmail.com Sat Jun 14 14:08:48 2003 From: Dolf_BOEK@hotmail.com (Dolf Boek) Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian,aus.religion.islam Subject: Re: Religion / Homosexuality Forum (Brisbane) Date: 13 Jun 2003 03:03:47 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 358 NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.147.118.248 X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jun 2003 10:03:47 GMT -Barry ======== Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information. Voicemail/fax number +14136227640 From dolf_boek@bigpond.com Thu Jun 19 18:03:59 2003 Evidently your religious belief is superficially exoteric. If you wish to get into matters of esoteric theology on which Islam and Christianity are both based, then you need to be a tad more spiritually mature. If my WWW-page doesn't answer your question, then ask a more meaningful one! - dolf http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/ "LoneRiver" wrote in message news:3eee9501_1@news.iprimus.com.au... What does magic squares have to do with anything Christian ??? I think you may be in the wrong place. LR "Dolf Boek" wrote in message news:f3d12aa4.0306130203.37677350@posting.google.com... > To be sure God, doesn't change, that is why the Sabbath keeping Eunuch > is given a name above that of sons and daughters--And that is why your > soul wont enjoy Eternity. > > However, you should cease giving pretension to talking on behalf of > YAHWEH. > > The following comment from Rabbi Kaplan's book on meditative Kabbalah > provides the missing link {ie. use of color and magic squares as a > kabbalistic conception} in support of my vMeme interpretation of > Hebrew/Greek/English letters as being connected to number and > specifically the magic square. > > This appears to be the top most {ie. the first cause} kabbalistic > mathematical model. > > You might be mistaken in believing that the Muslim/Israel conflict is > a religious one--From this you may deduce that there is NO SUBSTANCE > to Muslim and Sunday sabbatarian Christian claims to religious belief, > because the Telos apogee has occurred and they are bound by oath to > observe these principles. > > There time is past and they don't want peace and yet keep claiming > their struggle a religious clause--I think it best to consider that > the top Hamas leaders will continue to liquidate their believes > because their claim to spiritual belief is false and and the populace > is placed in a grave misapprehension. As an institutional claim to > religious belief, the Hamas and other Muslim extremist groups no > different to Adolf Hitler. > > One of the most mysterious Kabbalists of the Sixteenth Century was > Rabbi Joseph Tzayach (1505-1573), who was also one of the leading > rabbinical figures of that period. Aside from his many mystical > works, a large body of Responsa exist from him in manuscript, and he > is known to have corresponded with the leading religious leaders of > that time. > > Rabbi Joseph Tzayach was apparently born in Jerusalem, and from there > he was chosen to serve as rabbi in Damascus. There were two Jewish > communities in Damascus, one being an immigrants community from Spain > (following their expulsion under Inquisition from the Roman Catholic > Emperor of Spain), consisting of some five hundred families, and the > other being the native communities, known as the Mostarabians, who had > been there from ancient times. It was the Mostarabians community that > chose Tzayach as its leader, but it seems that he learned many > ancient mysteries from them. > > Tzayach commuted frequently between Damascus and Jerusalem, and we > find him in the Holy City on numerous occasions between 1538CE and > 1555CE. It was in Jerusalem that he wrote his main Kabbalistic work, > Evven HaShoham (The Onyx Stone) in 1538CE. A year later, he wrote a > second book, Tzeror HaChaim (The Binding of Life), a mystical > commentary on the Talmud. His Sheirit Yosef (Remnant of Joseph) an > expansion of the Evven HaShoham, was written in 1549CE, also in > Jerusalem. > > Rabbi Joseph Tzayach apparently was influenced by Abulafia's school (A > prophet with messianic overtones, whose Kabbalistic works some in his > time, considered heresy and which remain in mainly in cipher and are > largely unpublished in English), and many ideas that he discusses seem > to be taken verbatim from Abulafia's writings. Thus, for example, > Abulafia warns that one striving for the highest level {ie. the First > Cause/Principle}, which is called the Crown, or Keter (Kay, Tau, > Resh), must he careful, lest he be 'cut off' (Karet, Kaf, Resh, tau). > He notes that both words contain the same letters, and the exact same > idea is also mentioned a number of times in Tzayach's works. > > Even more obvious is an interpretation of the Hebrew word for > 'Letters', which is Otiot (Aleph, Vav, Tau, Yod, Vav, Tau) [a > chronological concept of times/seasons which is seemingly equivalent > to the term 'oth-signs/Greek semeion used within the Dead Seas > Scrolls]. The word can be divided into two, spelling out Tau Alef--'a > line of Alef', and Tau Yod--'a line of Yod (=10).' This is said to be > indicative of a strong relationship between the letters of the > alphabet and the ten digits, which are ten units. A virtually > identical discussion of this is found both in Abulafia's Or HaSekhel > (Light of the Intellect) and in Tzayach's Tzeror HaChaim (The Binding > of Life). > > Tzayach's most important work is his Evven HaShoham, literally 'the > Onyx Stone'. As he mentions in his introduction, the onyx paralleled > the tribe of Joseph in Aaron's breastplate, and the title therefore > alludes to the name of the author. He also notes that the word Shoham > (Shin, He, Mem) has the same letters as HaShem (He, Shin, Mem), > meaning 'the Name', since this is the main point of the book. > > Even more fascinating is Tzayach's discussion of magic squares. These > numerical arrays were well-known in ancient India and China, and were > introduced to the western world in the early 1400's by Moschopulus of > Constantinople. It appears that they were also known to the ancient > Kabbalists. They were discussed in a number of places in Kabbalistic > literature, and when engraved on metal or stone, are often used as > amulets. Tzayach himself discusses such uses, and many references can > be found in Shoshan Yesod Olam and in Toledot Adam. In his Sh'nei > Luchot HaB'rit (Two Tablets of the Covenant), Rabbi Isaiah Horowitz > (1560-1630CE), a major figure in Kabbalah, discusses a magic square in > relation to the mysteries of creation. > > For example of such use see: > > http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html#AXIOM4 > > The most elementary magic square is of the third order, that is, it > contains three digits to a side. It therefore contains the first nine > digits, and its usual form is > > 2 | 9 | 4 > --------- > 7 | 5 | 3 > --------- > 6 | 1 | 8 > > The reader will immediately notice that every line, row and diagonal > has the same sum, namely fifteen. This is the simplest magic square, > since one of the first order is a simple digit, and it is impossible > to construct one of the second order. > > Tzayach discusses the relationship between magic squares and the > [seven visible planets: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, > Moon], and his system is very similar to that on ancient astrology and > alchemy. This is certainly no coincidence, since both lay claim to a > very ancient tradition. > > MAGIC SQUARES > > ORDER CORRESPONDENCE SUM OF SIDE = n(n2+1)/2 or (n3+n)/2 > (n) > 3 Saturn 15 > 4 Jupiter 34 > 5 Mars 65 > 6 Sun 111 > 7 Venus 175 > 8 Mercury 260 > 9 Moon 369 [*] > > 10 Keter-Crown 505 > {Nature contains Nature} > 11 Chokhmah-Wisdom 671 > {Nature rejoices in its Nature} > 12 Binah-Understanding 860 > {Nature surmounts Nature} > 13 Chesed-Love 1105 > {Nature amended in its Nature} > 14 Gevurah-Strength 1379 > {Act of Nature} > 15 ????????????????? 1695 > 16 Tiferet-Beauty > {Form of Nature} 2056 > 17 Netzach-Victory 2465 > {Engendering Nature} > 18 Hod-Splendor 2925 > {Transforming Nature} > 19 Yesod-Foundation 3439 > {Autonomous Nature} > 20 Malkhut-Kingship 4010 > {Totality of Nature} > > In Tzayach's system, however, we do not stop with the planets, but > continue and proceed to the Sefirot. These are represented by magic > squares of the order ten to twenty. These magic squares are > apparently used for a very special meditation, where each horizontal > row is a 'house', while each number in this row is a 'room'. Thus, in > the magic square of the tenth order, which represents Keter-Crown, the > first 'room' of the first 'house' is 1, the second is 2, the third is > 98, and the fourth is 97. > > MAGIC SQUARE OF ORDER TEN CORRESPONDING TO KETER-CROWN > > 1 | 2 | 98 | 97 | 96 | 5 | 94 | 93 | 9 | 10 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > 90 | 12 | 13 | 87 | 86 | 85 | 84 | 18 | 19 | 11 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > 80 | 79 | 23 | 24 | 76 | 75 | 27 | 28 | 22 | 71 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > 70 | 69 | 68 | 34 | 36 | 35 | 37 | 33 | 62 | 61 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > 41 | 59 | 58 | 57 | 45 | 46 | 44 | 53 | 52 | 50 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > 51 | 49 | 48 | 47 | 55 | 56 | 54 | 43 | 42 | 60 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > 31 | 32 | 38 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 63 | 39 | 40 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > 30 | 29 | 73 | 74 | 25 | 26 | 77 | 78 | 72 | 21 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > 20 | 82 | 83 | 14 | 16 | 15 | 17 | 88 | 89 | 81 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > 91 | 92 | 3 | 7 | 6 | 95 | 4 | 8 | 99 |100 > ----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- > > The magic square for Keter-Crown is presented in three places in his > works. He warns against trying to change or improve the squares, as > some tried to do. He writes that he 'received this from my master, of > blessed memory. One should not add to the squares that we have drawn, > since they allude to the highest and most concealed concepts, as we > have explained. One who attempts to improve them, actually diminishes > them, for he does not consider the glory of God. Each house and each > room has a specific function, but this I did not learn from my > master.' > > In a number of places, Tzayach stops just short of explicitly > explaining exactly how these squares are used. In one place he > states, 'If you look carefully at the order of the numbers in the > houses and rooms, you will understand a wondrous concept regarding the > mystery of the order of Atzilut {Nearness as the universe of > Sefirot-numbers}. But I do not have the authority to reveal the > reasons for the numbers associated with each room. He concludes, > 'This is among the deepest mysteries of the highest Merkava. It > cannot be delinated by books or scrolls. The mysterious reason for > this is that they are cycled by the Infinite Being {Ain Sof}, where no > eye can penetrate/ May He and His name be blessed. But from what I > have written, the intelligent will understand.' > > There is considerable discussion as to whether one should meditate > alone, or together with an instructor. The Baal Shem Tov explicitly > taught that one should always meditate with a companion, since this > can otherwise by very dangerous. Tzayach anticipates this, and > writes, 'It is necessary for the initiate's master to stand over him > the first time, until he becomes accustomed [to enter these states. > His master] can help bring him back to his normal state of > consciousness. [One must do this] until he is properly initiated into > these new states [of consciousness], lest he gaze and lose his mind > [like Ben Zoma]. > > Finally, Tzayach was probably the last Kabbalist to advocate the use > of the prophetic position, where one places his head between his > knees. This position was used by Elijah on Moutn Carmel, and > occasionally, by the sages of the Talmud. It is also mentioned by Hai > Gaon (939-1038 CE), head of the Babylonian academy at Pumbedita. Some > five hundred years later, Tzayach discusses the same position. > Speaking of individuals who meditate (hitboded), he says, 'They bend > themselves like reeds, placing their heads between their knees until > all their faculties are nullified. As a result of this lack of > sensation, they see the Supernal Light, with true vision and not with > allegory.' > > This position is also associated with meditation on the houses and > rooms in the magic squares. He writes, 'If you wish to enter into > their mystery, concentrate on all that we have said. Contemplate > (hitbonen) the rooms that we have discussed, together with their > lights, colors, and letter combinations. Mediate (hithoded) on this > for a while, either briefly or at leght. Begin by placing your head > between your knees.' [Aryeh Kaplan, ©1982, 'Meditation and Kabbalah', > p 158-165] > > - dolf > > > "LoneRiver" wrote in message news:<3ee567b5_1@news.iprimus.com.au>... > > God does not change... > > > > Hebrews 13:8. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. > > > > ...He is the same today as He was yesterday and He will be the same > > tomorrow... > > Just because the debt has been paid does not mean we can go on using the > > credit card. God still hates sin, sin still separates us from God. The Old > > Testament does not become obsolete because of the New Testament, it only > > changes the price we must pay for our sin. > > > > Leviticus 18:22. "`Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is > > detestable. > > > > IT IS STILL DETESTABLE TODAY !!! > > > > If you disagree then you must also disagree with this statement: > > > > Leviticus 18:23 "`Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile > > yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have > > sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. > > > > God is clear on this one... > > > > LoneRiver > > > > -- > > Baruch Habba Bashem Adonai > > Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord > > > > "Dolf Boek" wrote in message > > news:2Y3Fa.912$FL1.15148@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > > > "LoneRiver" loneriver@iprimus.com.au > > > > > > Perhaps you are confusing the laws and the comments within the Scriptures > > > which condemns astrological occultism that as Sunday sacred hymenealism > > > {arsenokoites} is often mistaken so for Christianity. > > > > > > Having denied seventh-day Sabbath as attribution of Nature by which God > > > {YAHWEH} as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer is particularised and the > > means > > > by which we may participate within his Everlasting Covenant, you instead > > > replace it with your own claimed morality sustained by only an allegorical > > > view of the bible-- have you not construct your own disease {Malakia}? > > > > > > - dolf > > > > > > "LoneRiver" wrote in message > > > news:3ee3dcb5_1@news.iprimus.com.au... > > > Becoming a homosexual is a choice based on sexual preference. > > > Being Jewish is following God and is therefore a choice that pleases God. > > > Being homosexual is not following God (in fact is the going against God) > > and > > > is therefore a choice that does not please God. > > > > > > [snipped for context] > > > > > > Having said that homosexuals are not to be hated, they are to be loved and > > > accepted, only God has the right to judge, and He loves the person (may be > > > not the act/sin) He sent His Son to die for homosexuals as well as > > > heterosexuals. The important fact to remember here is WE ALL SIN AND FALL > > > SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. Homosexual sin is just as offensive to God as > > > witchcraft, anti-Jew, murder, theft and homophobia (hating homosexuals). > > > > > > I find it ironic that homosexuals are more accepting and loving than most > > > heterosexual Christians who are supposed to be accepting and loving, hate > > in > > > any form displeases God, we are called to LOVE OUR NEIGHBOURS AS OUR > > SELVES. > > > There was no small print saying unless they are: gay, black, Jew, thieves, > > > sinners etc... If that were the case we would all be in trouble because > > we > > > all act in ways that offend God (thankfully He still Loves us all). > > > > > > LoneRiver > > > > > > -- > > > Baruch Habba Bashem Adonai > > > Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord > > > > > > "Kristian Fletcher" wrote in message > > > news:3ee347ba$0$13752$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > > > > For anyone interested... > > > > > > > > QUT Queer Department & Modern Theatre Compan