Greetings

Thank you for participating in our message base here.

I believe that your thoughts are valid.  Just as valid as anyone's in 
this message base.  On the other hand I would like to encourage each of
us to refrain from describing in detail the act of masturbation.  Do we
really need to be reminded of all the steps?  I think not.  The bible
says that our sin is between us and God personally and individually.
To one, mb may be sin and to another it may not.  It is between the person
and their God to know where they stand.  

If you desire holiness in your life then you will be very close to God.
If you desire righteousness through Christ you will be very close to God.
Man made philosophy and reasoning can be used to justify and rationalize
our behaviour patterns and desensitize us to what God may be trying to do
in our lives.  The key issue here when dealing with WHAT sin is and is not
goes back to the source.  What DOES the bible say about sin?  What does
the bible say about what our minds are to be thinking about?  Personally,
I feel that I would not want to ask God to join me in the act of
masturbation.  One of the things that I have learned about becoming more
like Christ is that I am to be selfless and not selfish.  It would almost
be like rationalizing any other behaviour pattern and acting as if my
inviting God into that behaviour would make it more acceptable.  Do we
really have to invite God to anything?  If we are Christians He is already
there.  How do we grieve the Holy Spirit in our lives?  What does the bible
say? 

Just some points to ponder as we debate this behaviour pattern in our lives.


cheers

James Moffitt
Jesus Connect Ministries




>In a previous message "go_the_distance" wrote:
>
>What no-one has ever told you is that God in His holiness wants to 
>always be near you and mb does not have to separate you from God's 
>love. 
>  
>
>It certainly will not draw God any closer as was believed by the 
>paganistic view that Paul the Apostle fought against.  (You cannot draw
>God close by indulging in sex - doesn't work that way).  But in your
>suffering with this disease - it will not separate you from His 
>infinite love.  
>
>

>In a previous message "amazonchic" wrote:
>
>Hello everyone! I have never posted a message to a board like this before 
>and I truly believe that this is a topic which needs to be openly 
>discussed. It's really too bad that a lot of people are reluctant to 
>discuss it. So I thank all of you that are willing to discuss this
>both openly and honestly. I am a 22 year old female that has been 
masturbating for quite a while now. I started when I was 12 years. I have
>been a born again Christian since the summer of 1992. After I became
>a Christian I started to feel deeply ashamed. The shame was so intense
>that I never told anyone about my behaviour. But I continued to do it. 
>I was afraid to tell my female Christians. Not because I didn't think 
>I could trust them, but because I was afraid of how they would react. So
>I kept silent. A couple of days ago, I was talking with a close friend
> of mine. She's married and a very strong Christian. She is also not
>afraid to confront me when I need it. So I wanted to hear her opinion 
>on the topic of masturbation. I asked her point blank if she thought
>masturbation is a sin. Much to my shock and amazement she told me that
>she didn't think it was. I was speechless. so I quested her about it. She 
>asked me a series of question. Like did I fantasize while I was 
>doing it, Did I do it in inappropriate places and have I ever done it
>while looking at porn. Sandie has given me Godly and wise advice on many
>other subjects. I can talk to her about anything. I don't just take her
>at her word and think deeply about the things she tells me. I truly
>believe that in my situation I am not sinning when I masturbate. Here are
>some reasons why I say that. 
>
>1. I don't fantasize in anyway while I do it. I don't look at pornography,
>read sexually explicit books or magazines and when I do it, my mind is
>blank. I don't think of anyone or anything. 
>
>2. I use it mainly to relax at time and to release tension. I do at night
>just before bed. I've found that this helps me to relax and to sleep better. 
>I also use to release sexual tension. Isn't that better than going out
>and actually having sex with someone? Masturbation is totally safe sex. 
>
>3. I am not married. I am a single woman and will not be getting married
>anytime in the near future. So I am not being selfish to anyone else and I 
>don't have a husband that I am depriving sexually. It's just me. I just
>don't see how this can be harmful. 
>
>the friend I mentioned earlier is married and she admits that she 
>also masturbates. She has not denied her husband sexually in any way. 
>
>
>Now, don't misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that masturbation is 
>okay. I don't think that all. I think it is definitely a sin when 
>fantasizing and martial depravation takes place. All I'm saying is that
>in my case, I don't see how it could be wrong. I'm not claiming to be 
>perfect. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not. 
>
>Well...I'm anxious to hear what you all think about what I have written
>here. Everything i have said here is true and reflects my real experiences. I am
>not trying to cover up anything. 

Hey,
You see, when you mb, you are satisfying your sexual needs. So, you have a
selfsex. It means this is a SIN. The only sex, that is not a sin, is between
husband and wife! Period!

What no-one has ever told you is that God in His holiness wants to 
always be near you and mb does not have to separate you from God's 
love. 
  

It certainly will not draw God any closer as was believed by the 
paganistic view that Paul the Apostle fought against.  (You cannot draw
God close by indulging in sex - doesn't work that way).  But in your
suffering with this disease - it will not separate you from His 
infinite love.  

So you feel turned on - for whatever reason; you may be at the stage in 
your cycle where your body just screams for a release but you, wanting 
to not have to put up with "this body and its desires" seek never to be
separated from God.   Simply invite God there with you as you have to
go through what you would rather not.

Lights off, and you are without interruption.  Holy is the Lord - you
begin to worship God and invite His presence as you will go through 
something that you would rather be free of.  After a time of worship
where you desire nothing but Christ, you begin to mb and a feeling that
you are violating yourself because of an intruder may come upon you as 
you go through the suffering of buildup towards a release.  But for 
this difficult experience, you chose to invite God  into an area of 
your life which you know you would have gone through anyway - and chose
not to push God away.  You may end up crying after the experience but 
tears from the Holy Spirit are as diamonds in comparison to the lust of
pornography or the worship of your body's sexuality had you kept the 
lights on - your body becoming a temple to be used for self-worship 
without God - and as such it never gets enough and wants more and more
and more, never being satisfied.


For those who carry the pride of saying "I have overcome and do not mb"
- I too was there, but my nocturnal emissions became too much when, 
while visiting friends, I had to wash their sheets in the morning.  But
also I think that I wasted more time always being turned on and 
thinking about a release, where I could have just gotten it over with
and gotten on to other, more important things in Life.

We are clay vessels, who the Holy Ghost wishes to flow through, so He
can both heal us and touch the world.  Allow Him in your life always,
and you will always be undergoing His mighty work of Salvation.

go_the_distance@hotmail.com

What no-one has ever told you is that God in His holiness wants to 
always be near you and mb does not have to separate you from God's 
love. 
  

It certainly will not draw God any closer as was believed by the 
paganistic view that Paul the Apostle fought against.  (You cannot draw
God close by indulging in sex - doesn't work that way).  But in your
suffering with this disease - it will not separate you from His 
infinite love.  

So you feel turned on - for whatever reason; you may be at the stage in 
your cycle where your body just screams for a release but you, wanting 
to not have to put up with "this body and its desires" seek never to be
separated from God.   Simply invite God there with you as you have to
go through what you would rather not.

Lights off, and you are without interruption.  Holy is the Lord - you
begin to worship God and invite His presence as you will go through 
something that you would rather be free of.  After a time of worship
where you desire nothing but Christ, you begin to mb and a feeling that
you are violating yourself because of an intruder may come upon you as 
you go through the suffering of buildup towards a release.  But for 
this difficult experience, you chose to invite God  into an area of 
your life which you know you would have gone through anyway - and chose
not to push God away.  You may end up crying after the experience but 
tears from the Holy Spirit are as diamonds in comparison to the lust of
pornography or the worship of your body's sexuality had you kept the 
lights on - your body becoming a temple to be used for self-worship 
without God - and as such it never gets enough and wants more and more
and more, never being satisfied.


For those who carry the pride of saying "I have overcome and do not mb" -
I too was there, but my nocturnal emissions became too much when, while
visiting friends, I had to wash their sheets in the morning.  But also I
think that I wasted more time always being turned on and thinking about a
release, where I could have just gotten it over with and gotten on to other,
more important things in Life.

We are clay vessels, who the Holy Ghost wishes to flow through, so He can
both heal us and touch the world.  Allow Him in your life always, and you
will always be undergoing His mighty work of Salvation.

What no-one has ever told you is that God in His holiness wants to always
be near you and mb does not have to separate you from God's love.   

It certainly will not draw God any closer as was believed by the paganistic
view that Paul the Apostle fought against.  (You cannot draw God close by
indulging in sex - doesn't work that way).  But in your suffering with this
disease - it will not separate you from His infinite love.  

So you feel turned on - for whatever reason; you may be at the stage in your
cycle where your body just screams for a release but you, wanting to not
have to put up with "this body and its desires" seek never to be separated
from God.   Simply invite God there with you as you have to go through what
you would rather not.

Lights off, and you are without interruption.  Holy is the Lord - you begin
to worship God and invite His presence as you will go through something that
you would rather be free of.  After a time of worship where you desire
nothing but Christ, you begin to mb and a feeling that you are violating
yourself because of an intruder may come upon you as you go through the
suffering of buildup towards a release.  But for this difficult experience,
you chose to invite God  into an area of your life which you know you would
have gone through anyway - and chose not to push God away.  You may end up
crying after the experience but tears from the Holy Spirit are as diamonds
in comparison to the lust of pornography or the worship of your body's
sexuality had you kept the lights on - your body becoming a temple to be
used for self-worship without God - and as such it never gets enough and
wants more and more and more, never being satisfied.

For those who carry the pride of saying "I have overcome and do not mb" - I
too was there, but my nocturnal emissions became too much when, while
visiting friends, I had to wash their sheets in the morning.

We are clay vessels, who the Holy Ghost wishes to flow through, so He can
both heal us and touch the world.  Allow Him in your life always, and you
will always be undergoing His mighty work of Salvation.

Hi Anita,

The name is Bart and I am a married man of 40. About 1.5 years ago I 
started posting on this bbs as I recognised I had a problem with porn. 
I received encouragement and direction from those ministering. I was 
even honoured by a visit of Willieb13 at my house. Since then I have 
been moving away from my addiction. Initially with a lot of success, 
but later on the gravitational pull of planet porn got stronger and I 
began falling back in my old habit. I have been following Willieb13's 
battle plan in general terms which has been a help, but still not 
enough to break free from it all.

I never thought mb was sinful as I couldn't find any scriptural basis 
for it and have been doing so on a regular basis for 26 years. Yet 
having recogised my weakness to view porn and my inability to 
completely break free from its temptation, makes me realise that 
through masturbation and fantasies I might be fuelling my addiction. 
What I take away of my addiction by prayer, discipleship and 
memorization of scripture, I restore with mb and fantasies.

Like the scripture that you quoted "let there not be a hint of sexual 
immorality among you", I also come (slowly) to the understanding that mb 
and fantasies should not have a place in my life.

While other people might come to the conclusion that it is not a sin to 
them as long as they don't fantasy about it, I cannot seperate the 
two. After having this habit for so long it is too engrained into my 
being.

Realizing this I wonder what is next: Should I stop it or bent my 
fantasies only towards my beautiful wife? The latter sounds easier, but 
also sounds like a compromise. Any thoughts on this?


Yours,

Bart

I have struggled with masturbation since I was about 14 or so, 
I am 33 now.  I have been a Christian for about 11 years and early 
on I decided as long as I didn't fantasize I would okay, well....the 
Scripture says let there not even be  a hint of sexual immorality among 
you.  So I can not do it and feel good about it after.  I can, at the 
time, justify it to the hilt.  You name it,
I have the excuse at the time....well I am not fantasizing, just 
looking at myself....I need to relieve tension...I'll probably be
 single forever so it can't be wrong.
...Surely God made these feelings so I can't be expected not to
 experience them....  you may know some of these.  Well, constantly 
I am convicted, I guess constantly is untrue, when I trip up I am 
convicted.  God has delivered me greatly from this addiction or 
should I say counterfeit attempt at fulfilling a hole in my soul 
that only JESUS can fill.  The two shall become one...not I shall
 gratify the desires of my flesh.  THe Bible constantly talks about
 serving and loving others in fact so far I have found nothing about 
showering "love" on yourself.  It talks about refraining from gratifying
 the sins of the flesh, lust of the eyes etc.  
And for those who say, no, I don't fantasize so it is okay...well,
 the fact that we do it is giving "pleasure" to our selves, indulging
 the flesh something the New Testament is clear on avoiding.  Jesus 
said if you die to yourself you will find life In Him (My paraphrase).
  Besides, you are playing with fire by doing it.  Pandora's box, God 
really did mean for our bodies to enjoy sex in  the safety of marriage.
  To give pleasure to each other, express love to the ultimate heights.
  I love reading Song of Solomon keeping in my mind that that is His 
intimate love for us.  Not in a perverse way, but deep and true and 
passionate.  He died for us, He will do anything to draw us to Him all
because HE LONGS for union with us.  God actually delights in us.  
When we accept Jesus to be Lord of our life He will fill all those 
areas where we try to fill it with sin.  Sin is simply us trying to
 satisfy something in our flesh that only God can fill.  God hates sin
 but does forgive us if we trip up 1 John 1:9.  So do run to Jesus if
you sin and if you are not sure if it is sin and really want to do it
anyways, well, if you are seeking Him and only Him you will sense His
conviction sooner or later.  Just ask Him, He wants what is best, not 
the worst.  It isn't a punishment, and you won't die if you don't do it.
Ask God to relieve stress,  "Cast all your cares on Him, He cares for
you"  Ask God to help you to know the height and depth and width of
His love for you, sooner or later you will hunger for things that are
of Him.  Don't allow shame and condemnation to overtake you, that is
from Satan, God convicts and Satan heaps condemnation causing you
to not go to God out of shame.  That is not true, God waits for us when
we sin to repent and run into His arms.  Read the Old Testament about the
many ways God repeatedly went out of His way to give the Israelites
opportunities to come back to Him.  We are like the Israelites and He
loves them too.  Love, He loves us, more than any thing or person ever
will.  Let Him satisfy.  
I say all this, as someone who is still struggling daily with sins, 
temptations and set backs but I know in my heart that He is all about
Love..."we love because He first loved us"  1 John
We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.  We are nothing
apart from Him.  We cannot do it on our own but with His strength only.
God bless you and know He loves you deeply
Anita
If anyone would like to email me feel free.  akharris@tbaytel.net

Greetings fellow warriors of the cross.

It is time for ROLL Call.  Take a peek at the description for this
Message Base.  

Is that describing you?  I want to know WHO you are.  I want to know
so that I can pray for you and you can pray for me. We must bind our
faith together as we do battle both on our knees and via the technology
of the Internet.  

Some would say that we are not making a difference in the lives of people
on the Net.  I want to remind each of you that the Bible says
that we either speak life or death with our tongues.  The written
word is a very powerful medium.  If you do not believe me, read your
bible and then tell me something different.  :)

I know of a handful of folks here that are standing in the gap with
regards to ministry here at the PPS Links.  

Hersholt Ford
Bill Berry
James Moffitt (me)
Scott 

I have a personal e-mail distribution list.  I have an ICQ Distribution
list in which all of the people that have written to me asking for 
prayer and help with accountability in them. The last time I took count it
was at 35 people. When I send out messages on either e-mail
or ICQ I get very LITTLE response.  I am confused about the silence folks.
 

Are you in the battle or are you on the sidelines?  If you are on
the sidelines and you expect this addiction to go away by itself then
you are going to stay miserably defeated.  You know whom you are when
you read this.  I know some of you are engaged in one on one e-mail
accountability with one of the above mentioned ministers here at Jesus
Connect.  I am not speaking to you. 

Accountability starts with participation folks.  Lets ALL start
participating one with another here.  You pick the way you want to
communicate and I will meet you there.  ICQ, email, BBS, AOL Instant 
Messenger, Netmeeting, Phonefree, Mediaring Talk 99.  You name it and
I will be there.

One of the most powerful ways that we can minister to one another and
to those that enter the walls of our ministry here on the NET is to 
tell somebody what Jesus is doing within YOUR LIFE.  That means we need
to quit being silent and start giving a testimony!!  I can nost stress
this enough folks.  WE MUST stand up and be counted for the sake of
the Kingdom.  How will people ever know of the resurrection power of 
Christ in our lives if they never hear about it.  

Let us start by writing down our testimonies and posting them online.  
(see next message with more ideas for doing ministry here)

Think about it.  (Use your imagination here.)

Lets say you were actually able to talk to God face to
face (well not face to face, we all know what'll happen if you acutally
see Him, lets just say you're blind folded) and you asked God if
it was ok for you to masturbate.  You ask Him if masturbation is
sinful.  Think about it.  What do you think he would say?  Do you
*really* think He would say its ok and that you can continue doing
it without a worry?  Do you?  I think deep in our hearts we all
know what His answer would be.  We - myself included - just have to stop
rationalizing and listen to that little crying voice inside us that tells
us that what we are doing is wrong.  I'm struggling with this
issue now.  I'm not questioning whether masturbating is right or wrong
- I know it is.  I'm simply addicted.  It's been about 3 days since I
last masturbated (big deal for me).  I'm praying real hard and really
making an effort to stop for good.  This BBS is really helping.  Your
comments, URL links, and words of encouragement have really helped me
on my new journey.  *Please* pray for me.  I dont want this problem
to control me any more...I don't want this problem to control me anymore....
I don't want this problem to control me anymore.  I want to be
in control of all parts of my life again, especially my "night" life.

Thank you Jesus!!!

I know of no man that has never done the dirty deed,
but I also know of no man that is perfect, except Jesus.

Now I will not go into a debate concerning is masturbation wrong,
I will tell you the truth.  Masturbation is sexual and involves
one's own love for his or her own flesh.  Gratifying the need to 
have an orgasm or just to enjoy the feel of one's own body.  It 
is a need from God to procreate.  It is not easy to stop masturbating
especially if you try to without God.  I'm 35 and I have for at least 
18 of those years struggled with this.  But what is the real problem
with masturbation?  Separation from God.  That is considered SIN.  
You can never do all you are suppose to do for God so why on earth 
do you worry about the things you do against yourself.  Masturbation
is a type of sin.  It is offering your flesh up to the slavery of
your weakness.  Now as to those that believe that anything other than
intercourse between two married people is sin, I can't disagree more.  
Perversion is sometimes in the eye of the beholder.  God created man and
woman and called them Adam.  My wife and I are one flesh and her body 
is mine as mine is hers.  Mutual masturbation is not sinful it is a part
of giving to the one God has given you satisfaction they desire from
their spouse.  But again I have to say this is in the vow of marriage.
Between a MAN and a WOMAN.  Perversion involves pain and disgrace toward
your body, which is the temple of God.  But this also involves drugs,
alcohol. and in some cases tatoos. Oops another subject.
As far as what to do.  Seek God and ask for help.  God will take your mind
off the problem and in some cases you only need to say JESUS over and over
and the thought of masturbation will end.  Will you win the battle, maybe.
Will you win the War?  You need not. Jesus did it on Calvary.
We must learn to be slaves to righteousness not sin.  But if we fail
and come short of God's glory, Jesus is faithful and just to forgive.

So take this and keep it.  If you don't agree with it may the Lord of
Host touch your heart and help you pull the plank from your eye.  
Stop wondering if masturbation is wrong, just do the things that God ask and
He will deal with you on this issue.  If the temptation becomes too strong
Call your priest, pastor, father or who ever and seek conversation that
is Christian.  The desire will leave when satan sees he can no longer tempt you
and get away with it.  
God bless and may you find joy in serving a living God.
Pastor John

Thank you Willie for your comments. I read them and I agree with what 
you wrote. I agree that is it is a rare Christian who can mb with a 
pure heart and motives. I am glad that you were able to understand 
what i was trying to say. I wasn't sure if I was clear or not.
But for anyone out there who disagrees with what I wrote, please feel
free to post a response as well. I want to get both sides of the issue and
to get a lot of different opinions. I have no intention of berating
people who disagree with me. If you disagree, that's fine. We are all
entitled to their own opinion. This is after all a debate forum. There
are going to be disagreements. Have a goodnight all.

The Original Posting by Amazonchic ...
Hello everyone! I have never posted a message to a board like this before 
and I truly believe that this is a topic which needs to be openly 
discussed. It's really too bad that a lot of people are reluctant to 
discuss it. So I thank all of you that are willing to discuss this
both openly and honestly. I am a 22 year old female that has been 
masturbating for quite a while now. I started when I was 12 years. I have
been a born again Christian since the summer of 1992. After I became
a Christian I started to feel deeply ashamed. The shame was so intense
that I never told anyone about my behaviour. But I continued to do it. 
I was afraid to tell my female Christians. Not because I didn't think 
I could trust them, but because I was afraid of how they would react. So
I kept silent. A couple of days ago, I was talking with a close friend
 of mine. She's married and a very strong Christian. She is also not
afraid to confront me when I need it. So I wanted to hear her opinion 
on the topic of masturbation. I asked her point blank if she thought
masturbation is a sin. Much to my shock and amazement she told me that
she didn't think it was. I was speechless. so I quested her about it. She 
asked me a series of question. Like did I fantasize while I was 
doing it, Did I do it in inappropriate places and have I ever done it
while looking at porn. Sandie has given me Godly and wise advice on many
other subjects. I can talk to her about anything. I don't just take her at
her word and think deeply about the things she tells me. I truly believe
that in my situation I am not sinning when I masturbate. Here are some
reasons why I say that. 

1. I don't fantasize in any way while I do it. I don't look at pornography,
read sexually explicit books or magazines and when I do it, my mind is
blank. I don't think of anyone or anything. 

2. I use it mainly to relax at time and to release tension. I do at night
just before bed. I've found that this helps me to relax and to sleep better.
I also use to release sexual tension. Isn't that better than going out
and actually having sex with someone? Masturbation is totally safe sex. 

3. I am not married. I am a single woman and will not be getting married
anytime in the near future. So I am not being selfish to anyone else and I 
don't have a husband that I am depriving sexually. It's just me. I just
don't see how this can be harmful. 

The friend I mentioned earlier is married and she admits that she 
also masturbates. She has not denied her husband sexually in any way. 


Now, don't misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that masturbation is 
okay. I don't think that all. I think it is definitely a sin when 
fantasizing and martial depravation takes place. All I'm saying is that
in my case, I don't see how it could be wrong. I'm not claiming to be 
perfect. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not. 

Well...I'm anxious to hear what you all think about what I have written
here. Everything i have said here is true and reflects my real experiences. I am
not trying to cover up anything. 
=========================================
FROM WILLIEB13 ...

A Chic:  Your points are well considered and intelligently stated.
I hope some of the Christian sisters who read here will comment. 
I'm convinced that men and women deal with mb in different ways
(in the great majority of people); however, God's word and His
Truth are immutable.  Like you, Amazon, I do not feel that mb is
ALWAYS sinful.  But this is controversial in some Christian circles.
I would wager that most Roman Catholic theologians would 
propose that mb is sin.  I do not hold that position, partly because
there is no dogmatic and clear position that springs off the pages
of scripture (as you pointed out below) like there is clear direction
against such behavioural patterns such as homosexuality.

I feel that it is the condition of the heart when one is involved in
this behavioural act.  If, as some claim, one cannot participate
in mb without being involved in selfish gratification, we would
have to consider giving up eating food because it is certainly
a behavioural act that gratifies selfish desires.  In fact the Bible
discusses what our hearts are like when we eat in Proverbs
23: 7... The KJV ..." For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and
drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. " ... The NIV
has a somewhat expanded translation of the Hebrew ...
"...for he is the kind of man who is always thinking about the cost. 
 "Eat and drink," he says to you, but his heart is not with you." 
1st Cor. 6:13 is pertinent here, too.  It even makes a parallel
between sexual immorality and eating when the heart is not in
tune with the Lord.

So, here we see that even eating requires a control of the heart
to the point where if the heart is evil (as in gluttony) eating can
become a sin.  But should we avoid eating because it can be
sinful.  Of course not.  For this same reason, other behavioural
acts, not specifically described in the Bible in detail, like physical 
exercise, are not to be taken as sinful unless there is a sinful
intention in the heart as one engages in them.  So if one is
exercising for vanity purposes, exercise is sinful.  However, if one
is exercising to keep God's temple pure for His glory, exercise
can be used by the Holy Spirit for cleansing purpose. 

I believe the same is true of mb; however, let me clarify with this
proviso.  It is very difficult ... no, extremely difficult ... for the
male of the species to engage in mb without fantasizing sinfully or for
a purpose which is purely self gratification.  However, as you
point out, AChic, it is possible for mb to have a pure motive and
be carried out with a pure heart.  Here is where your contention
that the Holy Spirit will convict the heart of a sinful Christian who
engages in mb for only selfish purposes is right.  I don't think a
Christian, that is a true Christian, could engage in mb and come out with
a peaceful heart if it were engaged in for selfish purposes.

This is why I've used the example of a Christian man who is away
from his wife, possibly on the road for business, who engages in
mb, thinking only of his wife and to prevent having lustful thoughts
for another women.  In this case mb is proactive and to glorify 
God by glorifying the marriage that He instituted as Holy between
this husband and his wife.  

But we must take care and say that it is the rare, mature Christian
who can engage in mb with a pure and holy heart.  But like you,
Amazonchic, I agree that it's possible.  I also hope others will 
chime in with comments.  This is a healthy discussion, and I'm 
sure there are good Christians out there who don't agree with us.
I would hope, however, they would support their contentions 
with God's word.   I remain your brother in Christ .... Bill (14/4)
====================================================

>In a previous message "amazonchic" wrote:
>
>In response, to Aslan's question, yes, I can quit. In fact I can 
>go for months without doing it at all. If at some point in the future
>it becomes a problem, I will stop. As far as I'm concerned, it is not
>a problem right. Masturbation is not specifically mentioned in the
>Bible (or even alluded to) we shouldn't go around making sins out of 
>things that aren't addressed in the Bible. If it's a problem, the Holy 
>Spirit will convict you and show you what needs to be changed. It's not 
>our job as Christians to point out sin in other peoples lives. We need
>to deal with the sin in our own lives first. We are to give support
>and pray for people who truly do struggle in this area, but I don't think
>we should assume that everyone who masturbates has a problem. Granted,
>some might really have a problem and be in denial, but that is between
>that person and God.

In response, to Aslan's question, yes, I can quit. In fact I can 
go for months without doing it at all. If at some point in the future
it becomes a problem, I will stop. As far as I'm concerned, it is not
a problem right. Masturbation is not specifically mentioned in the
Bible (or even alluded to) we shouldn't go around making sins out of 
things that aren't addressed in the Bible. If it's a problem, the Holy 
Spirit will convict you and show you what needs to be changed. It's not 
our job as Christians to point out sin in other peoples lives. We need
to deal with the sin in our own lives first. We are to give support
and pray for people who truly do struggle in this area, but I don't think
we should assume that everyone who masturbates has a problem. Granted,
some might really have a problem and be in denial, but that is between
that person and God.

Hi Amazon,

I just have one question... Can you quit?

If you can't then masturbation has become an addiction (like it was 
for me).  More than just habit, now its a stronghold.  God is not 
amused at addictions.  His throne is not meant to be a crowded place.  
There is room there for God only, no other gods allowed!  Can you 
quit? Is this an addiction, an idol, a sin?  You decide...  
The Holy Spirit can and will help you.

God Bless,

Aslan983

Hello everyone! I have never posted a message to a board like this before 
and I truly believe that this is a topic which needs to be openly 
discussed. It's really too bad that a lot of people are reluctant to 
discuss it. So I thank all of you that are willing to discuss this
both openly and honestly. I am a 22 year old female that has been 
masturbating for quite a while now. I started when I was 12 years. I have
been a born again Christian since the summer of 1992. After I became
a Christian I started to feel deeply ashamed. The shame was so intense
that I never told anyone about my behaviour. But I continued to do it. 
I was afraid to tell my female Christians. Not because I didn't think 
I could trust them, but because I was afraid of how they would react. So
I kept silent. A couple of days ago, I was talking with a close friend
 of mine. She's married and a very strong Christian. She is also not
afraid to confront me when I need it. So I wanted to hear her opinion 
on the topic of masturbation. I asked her point blank if she thought
masturbation is a sin. Much to my shock and amazement she told me that
she didn't think it was. I was speechless. so I quested her about it. She 
asked me a series of question. Like did I fantasize while I was 
doing it, Did I do it in inappropriate places and have I ever done it
while looking at porn. Sandie has given me Godly and wise advice on many
other subjects. I can talk to her about anything. I don't just take her at
her word and think deeply about the things she tells me. I truly believe
that in my situation I am not sinning when I masturbate. Here are some
reasons why I say that. 

1. I don't fantasize in any way while I do it. I don't look at pornography,
read sexually explicit books or magazines and when I do it, my mind is
blank. I don't think of anyone or anything. 

2. I use it mainly to relax at time and to release tension. I do at night
just before bed. I've found that this helps me to relax and to sleep better. 
I also use to release sexual tension. Isn't that better than going out
and actually having sex with someone? Masturbation is totally safe sex. 

3. I am not married. I am a single woman and will not be getting married
anytime in the near future. So I am not being selfish to anyone else and I 
don't have a husband that I am depriving sexually. It's just me. I just
don't see how this can be harmful. 

The friend I mentioned earlier is married and she admits that she 
also masturbates. She has not denied her husband sexually in any way. 


Now, don't misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that masturbation is 
okay. I don't think that all. I think it is definitely a sin when 
fantasizing and martial depravation takes place. All I'm saying is that
in my case, I don't see how it could be wrong. I'm not claiming to be 
perfect. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not. 

Well...I'm anxious to hear what you all think about what I have written
here. Everything i have said here is true and reflects my real experiences.
I am not trying to cover up anything.

>In a previous message "Addicted2Porn" wrote:
>
>Is it sinful for me to mb when my wife is having her period?

Dear A2P ... Sin is separation from the will of God ... and that has
more to do with one's heart than one's overt behavioural act.  Think
about killing another human being.  God's law dictates against 
murder, but taking the life of another human is not always murder
and can be within the will of God.

Some would dictate dogmatically that "mb" is always sin; but I don't
see that supported by scripture.  Mutual mb between a husband 
and wife is certainly not sinful.  So, if your wife has her period and
she knows that you desire her and she consents to your mb as 
a way to remain pure in heart and desire for her, I see no reason why
this would be sinful.  And though it's not my place to suggest such, she
could certainly participate in this act with you as a loving way to 
satisfy her husband.  But should she not desire such or feel 
uncomfortable doing that, I'm sure she would appreciate you showing
how much you care for her by communicating your desires and 
wanting her to know that you are thinking only of her during that
time of the month.  

If any of you brothers/sisters has any retort to this, I'm sure that
our brother, A2P, would appreciate your thoughts.  .... Bill (16/3)

Back to Table of Contents.

(psalms 101:3-4 ) 
I will set no vile thing before my eyes. the deeds of faithless men I hate.
(3) Men of perverse heart shall be far from me; I will have nothing to do
with evil.(4)
GUYS I know how bad it is I have fallen a few times this week and man I
can't stand this but God freed me from this 4 years ago and if I fast and
pray he will do it again. God has laid on my heart that I have not fasted
and prayed so maybe this will help you others. Well, got to go. 

      PRAY FOR ME AND I'LL DO THE SAME GOD BLESS
                         EPHSIX88@HOTMAIL.COM 
                          WRITE TO ME IF YOU GET A CHANCE GOD BLESS       

Is it sinful for me to masturbate when my wife is having her period?

Greetings

Would you like to talk to someone in "real time" instead of doing the
email shuffle?  If you would then we have the answer for you. You can 
either utilize Pirch32 or Mirc or ccmirc as an IRC client software 
and log onto a Starlink.org IRC server to chat with us in our
#jesus_connect or #jesusconnectpps channels.  The pps channel is
specifically for addiction to pornography and masturbation. Our
#jesus_connect channel is a Christ and family oriented channel where
all are welcome. 

My nick is Friend_ and Hersh and John_ and I are usually online from 1900
to 2300 most week days.  Due to the lack of interest in our irc channels
sometimes when I am online I may not be there.  Send me an email at
jcmoffitt@jesus-connect.net and tell me you want to chat on irc and I will
log on to the irc server.  If you have icq you can contact me at uin
320700.  When I am online at home I have icq running all the time.

If you have any questions about HOW to do this please write to me and I can
give you step by step instructions.  

God bless

Dear Brothers/Sisters who struggle:
In the other PPS board on this subject, a young struggling brother
wrote...

>
>I thought I was doing pretty well and could handle myself 
>by not allowing myself to go into a site on the Internet, 
>but it's hard not to. 
>My wife is away for 3 weeks and just a little while ago I
>had to adjust myself and one thing led to another.  
>I feel rotten.  Am I ever going to get over this habit? 
> I pray every day and many days I feel like I've got it conquered,
> but I don't.  I just don't know what to say or think anymore.

To my brother, I replied....
(Another brother) has some good insights.  He, like myself, has
walked in your shoes.  For many years, I too had a victim mentality.
I felt out of control.  But after I came to establish a relationship,
... a covenant relationship, ... with Christ, a mentor/brother showed me
that I had KINGDOM AUTHORITY and that I was given, by the Holy
Spirit, the power to have self control (clearly stated in 2nd Tim 1:7).
My mentor showed me, as I now relate to you, that we all have a
sword to wield against the enemy who tempts us (Eph. 6:17) along
with the rest of His armour (Eph. 6:13-18).  And it's that sword that
allows us to resist sin (Ps 119: 9,11).  And if we stay in His word
continually and pray in the Spirit, he promises us spiritual success
(Joshua 1:8) and peace of mind (Phil. 4: 6,7).

But right now, you are easy prey for the one who stalks relentlessly
to attack when you're at your weakest.  That's why I keep advising
my brothers here to develop a  battle plan.  When we are weak, we
can't just be hiding behind our circumstances.  The lion smells our
weakness, like fresh blood when we're bleeding.  But you need to
develop an offensive battle plan.  Let me suggest a few positive 
elements of a good plan.

1.  Get into scripture memory.  There's nothing that satan flees more
     quickly from than God's word.  It's what even Jesus used against
     the wily one (Luke 4: 1-13) when satan tried to tempt our Lord.

2.  Develop a DAILY devotional life with God, involving meditation on
    God's word, prayer in the Spirit, and intercession for others.  It
    was not until Job (42:10) prayed for his friends that his life was
    restored.

3.  Get plugged into Christ's body (the church).  If you are truly a
    Christian, you have a spiritual gift (or gifts).  If you are not
    using
     this gift in conjunction with His body, your growth will always be
     suppressed.

4.  Find a spiritual mentor (and I don't mean a mystic guru), one whom
     you admire because he is a Godly man who is walking the straight
     and narrow path laid out by Christ.  Paul said to the Corinthians 
     that they could follow him because he followed Christ (1 Cor. 11:1).
     Find a "Paul," my young "Timothy," and follow him.
     [ Though, I was writing to a brother, this also applies to any sister
      who might need to find a "Pauline."]

If you do these things, God will honour your commitment in covenant.
If you're not willing to do these things, satan is going to have you
for dinner over and over again.  May you walk in the Spirit, my
brother, and away from carnality.  

As always, I offer my email address to converse about this battle
plan .... .

I hope these can help others in this PPS site as well ...
Bill (20/7)