Building Automation

Small Scale SCADA

I am working in a consultant firm for buiding services in Malaysia. I am particularly interested in SCADA and other automation technologies. I have a few simple queries and please correct me if I am wrong.

1. I found that it is very difficult to obtain books which explain what SCADA is locally. Are there any recommendation on good and simple books and how can I purchase them ?

2. How can I go about writting specification for SCADA system which cover both hardware and software ? Are there any vendor who are willing to supply this information ?

3. From my understanding, SCADA is mainly used by utilities company and it covered a wide area like the state grid or country grid. Currently there is a demand from our clients with smaller type open system which control and monitor both high voltage and low voltage within a complex like hospital, factory and condominium. Beside control and monitoring of electrical system, it also have the capablilities to trouble shoot problem within the system, implementing seperate metering and billing to different departments and also linking to Building Management System, Fire Alarm Control Syatem, Public Address System etc. This will open up a wider market for traditional SCADA which serve the utilities company. Are there any vendor which deal with this type of small scale SCADA system ?

4. Building Management System(BMS) is primilary used for the control of Heating Ventilating and Air Conditioning (HVAC) System. In addition it also do some control and monitoring for electrical system and fire alarm system. Is BMS going to take over the place of SCADA for function described in question 3 ? What is the different between BMS and SCADA in terms of hardware and protocol ? Is it possible to apply SCADA method in BMS and vice versa ?

5. From my knowledge, Factory Automation, SCADA and BMS are automation technology applied in different areas. Are there any possibility that in future the standard for hardware and software for the above technologies will be standardised ?

Thank you in advance for taking your time to answer my questions. Correct me again if I am wrong. Regards, William Lee

Re: Small Scale SCADA

William, Many leading vendors are currently addressing standards in enterprise monitoring, control, and data acquisition. A standard being developed which covers most of the applications you mention is the IEEE-P1451, which address the integration of legacy and proprietary SCADA systems into the enterprise information network. Please email your postal address and I will forward several excellent publication we have. Regards,

      Phillip Aitken
      Business Development
      Test  Measurement Org., Vantera Products
      Hewlett-Packard Australia Ltd.

Re: Small Scale SCADA

Mr. Aitken, My name is Feisal and like William, I'm based in Malaysia as well. Although I'm not doing consulting work for the moment, my employers have somewhat appointed my team to undertake the study of Real-Time Systems and Applications (including SCADA). Most of our main concern in the study to ensure the system/s to be implemented would be as "futureproof" as possible in terms of hardware and software upgrades. If it is not too much to ask, could you forward to me as well the publications you've mentioned? I hope these documents would shed some light on the subject of integration of legacy and proprietary SCADA systems and their applications. I would also welcome any references anybody could point to me regarding my study above. --

Feisal Umar 
 E-mail: afx@ppp.nasionet.my
 homepage: Currently inactive

Re: Small Scale SCADA

William Lee wrote: The Instrument Society of America(ISA) has some publications. Try looking at: http://www.isa.org/cgi-bin/webinator/webinator?arg=SCADAproximity=ranksuffixproc=maxthesaurus=0cmd=+Go+cmd=finddb=pubsdisp=allgrsz=10 John Bailey

Re: Small Scale SCADA

To William Lee 3. I consider that small or large, all of them are SCADA software, once implement a supervisory control. Our experience in this kind of integration, where you have different process like Air Conditioning, Light Control, high voltage and low voltage within a complex, etc. is the following:

a)- Get an general porpose SCADA software, well fitted to most part of your application;

b)- These software should be an open software where you can develop new routines (using scripts or code, depending on the software you select);

c)- Select a hardware family well fitted to your application;

e)- Look the equipments you will control/monitoring, like chillers, elevator, boilers. Some of them will have their own inteligence (IEDs) and the best think to to is to do a comunication using a standard protocol.

f)- Considering buinding automation, there is a standard called BACNET, that is used by a lot of building equipments. Others standards like fieldbus, modbus, etc. are used too.

g)-There are several "Fire Alarm Control System" that are opened and you can integrate in your system easely.

h)- Concluding, you will spend some money developing / adapting drivers and new functions in the standard SCADA software.

j)- If most par of your needs are building control, there are companies like:

  - Johnson Control;
  - Honeywell;
  - Leadsandgears;
  - etc

4.1 Building Management System(BMS) is primilary used for the control of Heating Ventilating and Air Conditioning (HVAC) System. In addition it also do some control and monitoring for electrical system and fire alarm system. Is BMS going to take over the place of SCADA for function described in question 3 ? It's a good question, here in Brazil, I could say that they began first.

4.2 What is the different between BMS and SCADA in terms of hardware and protocol ? The protocol is a standard defined by the users, considering their needs. In this way, we have DNP 3.0 and IEC-870---101/102/103 in the eletrical power aplications, BACNET in BAS, FIELDBUS in industry, etc. The hardware must attend the process needs, defined by the process standard tests. So, an Eletrical RTU is different from a building PLC.

4.3 Is it possible to apply SCADA method in BMS and vice versa ? I supose yes.

 Best regards
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 Clovis Simoes
 Spin Engenharia de Automacao ltda
 http://www.tecsoft.softex.br/~spin/spin1.htm
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