SCADA Future

Re: DCS and SCADA

Bill Tarlinton makes a provocative suggestion:

>SCADA Systems were developed for gathering data from far and wide using poor >quality comms, and providing high levels of reliability and operability. > >Given the rapid expansion of communications systems, (satellite, cellular, >fibre, tmr, microwave etc etc) and the increasing processing power available >at site, and given the brave new world of "economic rationalism" within the >utility industries, I wonder whether the classic SCADA system will continue >to be procured (even as part of a larger IT system) ?.

When the data gathering, integrity and validation requirements of SCADA can be met by technologies commonly used for IT systems, then there will be even further convergence. To take an extreme example: Any system that can promise to transmit video frames with retry of lost packets (etc.) and reassemble them in sequence without data errors in near-real-time _should_ be able to do what a 1200 baud SCADA comms link does now. Which will be more economical?

I think the expansion of communication systems, etc. will just help SCADA become more capable. As long as customers want SCADA-type processing and it is cheaper to have this done by a specialist SCADA vendor, then there will be SCADA vendors. As soon as ???? (pick your favourite system vendor--anyone for MS-SCADA?) decide that there are enough dollars to be made doing this then they will.

Part of the difficulty is that the requirements of SCADA still differ somewhat from most other data processing areas: The volumes (ie message sizes) are usually different; SCADA usually requires deterministic behaviour, IT systems usually do not; etc.

If customers end up deciding that they didn't really need SCADA in the first place, then I think that would be more reflective of the rise in power of accountants over engineers than any real change in the relative capabilities of "SCADA" and "IT" systems.

My $.02 worth... Naturally because I work for a SCADA vendor, I just _know_ that you can't do without us!

Cheers,

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 |         Andrew West                .       Foxboro Australia   |
 |  Embedded Systems Engineer     _--_|\      42 McKechnie Drive  |
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Re: DCS and SCADA, Andrew West's Discussion

Andrew West has provided one of the best descriptions of (classic) SCADA I have seen ! Thanks Andrew. Now, what of the future of "classic SCADA" ? SCADA Systems were developed for gathering data from far and wide using poor quality comms, and providing high levels of reliability and operability. Given the rapid expansion of communications systems, (satellite, cellular, fibre, tmr, microwave etc etc) and the increasing processing power available at site, and given the brave new world of "economic rationalism" within the utility industries, I wonder whether the classic SCADA system will continue to be procured (even as part of a larger IT system) ?. Any thoughts anyone ? Bill Tarlinton

Re: DCS and SCADA, Andrew West's Discussion

You lost me there. Rapid expansion of communications = cheaper communications. Overall costs are going down - technology such as comms costs less and we are seeing a move to low budget, low frills SCADA and no big premium for "Systems Integration".

The brave new world is certainly there but within utilities we are seeing costs going down. No more routine visits to site - better deployment of resources and better management of assets. This is a capital intensive industry. SCADA can be justified to reduce operating costs, but the really big payoff is to reduce the capital investment. Just today I looked at a small country town where $100,000 investment in SCADA saves $250,000 capital investment in tanks! This payback is immediate and common, but does require sophisticated modelling of water supply schemes in order to recognise the benefit of SCADA (increased security of supply translates to reduced need for large tanks!). As we see better design recognising the role of SCADA in reducing risk, we will see the above situation become routine.

So I can see SCADA becoming a routine part of the operation and management of any efficient Water Utility in the future. The larger ones first, as they can achieve economies of scale, but as the technology becomes better understood, it will reach even smaller utilities.

 Ian Wiese                  Ph 6189 420 2610
 Water Corporation of WA    Hm 6189 448 7487
 http://www.iinet.net.au/~ianw
 ianw@iinet.net.au          Fax 6189 420 3179

Re: DCS and SCADA, Andrew West's Discussion

Yes, great! I believe that the control layer that SCADA exists in will always be important and that SCADA systems will continue to be an excellent choice to fill it.

In many cases the applications that run at that level are becoming more important than the user interface stuff. The user interface is an area where there is lots of competition. A spreadsheet can even provide a decent user interface for some situations. However applications like batch tracking and leak detection are a SCADA vendor's advantage. Those applications are becoming modularized and contain many man-years of experience. And they usually run only on a SCADA system. In a world of "econonic rationalism" SCADA vendors become a pool of experience from all of their customers. Not that trade secrets are being passed around, it's just that no one wants to, or should, fund a new application 100%. A large SCADA vendor can play a role in reducing the cost of a application that in turn provides cost saving benefits to the customer. Meanwhile many utilities are looking more to their marketing side to get the advantage over the competition than the operations side so sharing resources (informally) isn't perceived as a problem.

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 Andrew H. Kooiman P.Eng.  Hamilton, Ontario, Canada   akooiman@hookup.net
 Cougar Automation Technologies Inc.                        (905) 524-0218 
 Automation for the Energy Industry
 
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