PART "B"
DIRECT CORRESPONDENCE WITH MR. DON BINKOWSKI,
THE PARTICIPANT OF THE CONFERENCE IN ANN ARBOR.

Before I start quoting the whole correspondence between Mr. Don Binkowski and me I would like to present the letter received from him afterinitial publication of this page. Because this letter contains an important caveat, which I understand and consider a honest declaration of the Author:

Subject: Re: Your letters
    Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:56:48 EDT
   From: RSelimaj@aol.com
       To: miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au
      CC: donb@ioa.com

Dear Miroslaw,

I believe that you had the experience of someone contacting you (to use our expression) out of the clear blue.  It would be helpful if you initially informed your correspondent of your web pages so that they can get a reading of where you're coming from.

To try to put my views in some sort of perspective, I would like this CAVEAT  placed before any of my opinions placed on the Internet:  "Since I am a neophyte and not an authority, I am learning, not pontificating.  I express my opinions but they are not cast in concrete.  Since I am not an evangelist, I not trying to convince anyone of anything.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs.  In an attempt to engage in a dialogue about the Polish Round Table, I have made preliminary judgements, which are subject to change based upon other evidence.  I respect everyone's opinion but I am interested if there are facts to substantiate their opinion.  Like others, I am looking for the almost indiscoverable, "the truth."  As an attorney, I have been trained to evaluate facts and I would like to receive as many as possible."

Don Binkowski
------------------------------------------------------

Subject:  The Polish Round Table
    Date:  Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:54:15 EDT
   From:  RSelimaj@aol.com
       To:  miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au, PONIECKA@aol.com
      CC: donb@ioa.com

Drogi Miroslaw,

As Maryan knows, I am temporarily in Warren, MI away from my on-line service and I am just able to use this e-mail address on occasion so that I could not respond sooner.

Also, as Wojciechowka knows, I do not speak, read or write Polish.  Before I go on the web with my views, I should first acquire more background.  Until the Ann Arbor Conference, I never heard of the Polish Round Table.

Were any books published in Poland about these negotiatons?  After all, they occurred 10 years ago.  Again, I have not kept up with current events in Poland.

While there are varying views of this effectiveness and impact, can there be any question that it was equally or more historically important (as I believe) than the falling of the Berlin Wall?  It appears to be THE MOST IMPORTANT POLISH EVENT since August 1939.

If we can come to some kind of consensus, I can get a feel for the historical significances of the event.

As I tried, in a short-hand manner, to conclude, the elections of the Polish Round Table split Solidarnosc in many components that I have no idea as to their nuance and number today as they are reflected in different political parties.

The Ann Arbor Conference singled out Lech Walesa (who was invited along with many others, e.g. Z. Brzezinski) as the leading figure in addition to Jaruzelski, who failed to appear.  (Kiszczak also failed to appear).

The Univ of Michigan tried to preserve the record of the Polish Roundtable and to place it in historical context.  Rational, intelligent individuals can hardly quarrel with this purpose.  While it is so easy to impute nefarious motives to your adversary, it would appear that the Catholic Church is advocating love, forgiveness and reconciliation.

While I maintain that there appear to be few Christians in Poland, Bishop Dembowski rationalized it differently.  He stated that they "were not Christian enough."  With a Papal Blessing and two R.C. bishops, I don't know how the Conference could be more biased toward the Prawica.

In 1989, could anyone disagree that the first and only goal was to escape Communist control?  Did not the Polish Round Table take that critical, irreversible step (crossing the Rubicon) and then beyond?

Please share your knowledge and views with me.

By the way do happen to know the Binkowski in Australia who has "binkowski.com?"  Since he was the first, I had to register "binkowski.org," for my web page, which I would ask you to look at, at your convenience.

It's about Poles and Polish Americans in the union movement.  It's on the Geo Cities site; maybe Maryann can give the web site to you since I don't have access to all of my materials at the Internet of Asheville, my internet provider.

Don Binkowski irmed letter with a short note, with an intention to reply fully later :

          Subject:  Re: (no subject)
              Date:  Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:22:47 +0800
             From:  Miroslaw Krupinski <miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au>
  Organization:  consulting engineer
                 To: RSelimaj@aol.com
                CC: HannaPoniecka <PONIECKA@aol.com>
    References: 1

Dear Don,

Thank you for your two letters. I will send a longer reply tomorrow or day after, because it needs to be written off-line. I will try to present some abbreviated information, which maybe you will consider in your opinion about the Round Table and caused by it situation in Poland.

Of course it will be not my full opinion. More of it in "Kraj Utracony", 35 numbers of which are accessible from the current issue (URL below). I am sorry that it is in Polish - the language you are not very strong with. But in my opinion, to judge the subject you must study some Polish documents and opinions (not necessary mine). I know that it is easy to accept given on the silver plate (in English) the option presented by communists in Michigan - but it is not scientific approach, and as such can misled the readers.

Regards

Miroslaw

          Subject:  Re: Your letters
              Date:  Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:13:36 +0800
             From:  Miroslaw Krupinski <miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au>
  Organization:  consulting engineer
                 To: RSelimaj@aol.com
             BCC: "p.PONIECKA" <PONIECKA@aol.com>
    References:  1

Dear Don,

As I have promised - I'm trying to reply to your both letters and at this occasion to your favorable opinion about Round Table and Round Table anniversary celebration. I have browsed your home page, so I have a general idea about your attitude to the communism.

Writing this letter I have an intention to publish it, together (only with your permission) with your letters. Because I can't afford to write it to every misled person separately. So please do not publish it before that. If you do not like to be quoted or named - please let me know. I will turn it into nameless story, without mentioning you or Mrs. Poniecka.

You wrote:

> Also, as Wojciechowka knows, I do not speak, read or write Polish. Before I
> go on the web with my views, I should first acquire more background. Until
> the Ann Arbor Conference, I never heard of the Polish Round Table.

It explains plenty to me. Having your first contact with the subject you had received one side briefing about it, given in understandable to you language, by the people who are selling they propaganda around the World, to get a false certificate of morality, and thereof to survive. You had no occasion to study the problem before, so you had no doubt that all those nice people, with smile to sell, are telling the truth. Thereof, on the basis of that one side story you expressed your opinion (I admit - privately, because I did not find it on your page). Mrs. H. Poniecka has told me that you have scientific interest in communism and Polish affairs - so I can understand and praise, because you have a Polish name and Polish ancestors.

> Were any books published in Poland about these negotiatons?  After all, they
> occurred 10 years ago.  Again, I have not kept up with current events in  Poland.

There were some publications (including mentioned by You book by Kiszczak), written mostly by the communist and so called "opposition" who took part in that deal and achieved significant personal profits. Even before 1989 ("end" of communism) Jaruzelski and his henchmen were traveling around the World with the speeches and papers to justify the martial law introduced in 1981. Not expecting the collapse of Soviet Unions and thereof discovery of the true - they presented themselves as the patriots and saviors of the nation. The truth is they were traitors and Jaruzelski many times in 1981 was begging soviet political and military authorities for invasion. That was recorded in the documents of the Polit Bureau of the soviet Central Comity and published by Wladimir Bukowski, who find access to the records. It was confirmed by soviet government as well.

The main bulk of information about that period you can find not in the books but in Polish press (as "Rzeczpospolita", "Nasza Polska" and others). Some of links to such materials you can find in the archive of my forum "Kraj Utracony". If you can read the archive of the daily "Rzeczpospolita" - you can find that attitude of it was changing, following ongoing discoveries of the fact and  documents. You can find, that Jaruzelski, Kiszczak and some other "saviors" are accused for many years and awaiting a trial for the crimes committed against their own nation and human rights in general. But they are "so sick" that they can't appear in court. For long time it was not preventing to issue them passports and to travel the World, as I mentioned before.

> While there are varying views of this effectiveness and impact, can there be
> any question that it was equally or more historically important (as I
> believe) than the falling of the Berlin Wall?  It appears to be THE MOST
> IMPORTANT POLISH EVENT since August 1939.

It is, in my opinion not the truth. First - the communism in Poland is still alive, represented by now so called post communists, who are well, rich and free of any responsibility for their crimes. It is still long way to end Polish communism. Second: it is not the truth that Poland or even Solidarity overthrown the World communism or caused its collapse in Poland in 1989. Of course - Solidarity movement had its impact on the rotting system - as well as had other struggles: Polish October 1956, Budapest 1956, Prague Spring 1968, massacres of workers by  communists in 1956, 1970, 1976 and 1981. But the true reason of communism collapse was an economic and political decay - the kind of red AIDS virus, developed from the very beginning - in 1920 ties.

First - there were millions of the innocent victims inside of the communist countries, which were accumulating in the memories of the living. For this reason there were no more than 6-7% of the party members in each of the communists countries, even Russia.

Second - the looting during the revolution and after W.W.II provided limited wealth, which was eaten by 70 years and wasted by "ingenious" rulers as Stalin (but not only him alone).

Third - there was a "cold war" consuming enormous funds and killing Russian economy.

As the result in 1987-89 the Russian communism was dying, rotten and abandoned by the World and by its own nation remembering its crimes, It produced  Gorbachow, but still no economic solution. With Russian communism rotten and dying - the communists in Poland and other communist satellites have lost their backup and military support. Because Russia starting to be a beggar of the World could not use the military bludgeon to help them, nor even declare such help. So, from 1987. the communism in Poland was on its knees and dying. Over the heads of communists was hanging responsibility for the last crime - Jaruzelski's "martial law", for the 400 000 murdered after war "enemies of the state", and countless crimes against human rights. At the start of the 1989 the natural death of the system looked unavoidable, and opportunity for the full democracy and justice was almost laying on the streets to take.

And then communists committed ingenious deception based on the knowledge of the human greed, weakness and desire of the power. They had used old links, ties and blackmail with/against so called "opposition" to arrange the Round Table in Magdalenka. They "offered" half of their power, which they de facto already lost, to swap for the half of responsibility for their crimes. And they bluff had  worked. At the end of the Magdalenka conference they turned themselves from the powerless dying corpse and bankrupt into free of any responsibility partner. Jaruzelski "bought" as well the presidency for himself - the position which nobody except voters had right to give him. The traitors had sold it for the chairs in new government for themselves.

The nation resisted. In "phony" presidential election with the single candidate and presidency already sold - the voters did not provide enough votes to make it valid. So called "opposition" with L.Walesa in first row had a hard work to force their deal on the nation. But at the end they managed to do it. By their own deception and false promises.

Following years proved that it was not honest deal. The new cast of ex-red prominents appeared - grabbing the positions, wealth and power. They tolerated those of the Magdalenka associates who were collaborating with them and were fighting against any opposition. Cheated nation became politically passive - the turn of votes following elections was below 50 % of entitled to vote. For excommunists it is a winning factor - they are voting all, because it is "to be or not to be" question for them.

Results?

Thousands of Polish retirees are living in poverty, receiving 300-400zl (75-100 $US) per month.

The teacher with 20 years of practice is paid net salary less than 1,000 zl/month. Similar salary is receiving doctor anestesiolog.

At the same time former colonel of UB/SB is receiving about 5 000 zl/month.

The industry, land and banks are going into foreign hands for the fraction of its value.

Several industries and farming are at the verge of collapse.

Some industrial branches are suffering "planned losses" achieving the annual planned loss during the first 3 months of the year.

Generally, the former communists and their new associates, who are wielding power, are today the most vicious imperialists - ignoring the nation's need in areas of education, health services, housing. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs are in 80-90 percent staffed by former communistic diplomats and former security employees.

> If we can come to some kind of consensus, I can get a feel for the historical
> significances of the event.

Where, after your have read all above, this consensus point is placed?

> As I tried, in a short-hand manner, to conclude, the elections of the Polish
> Round Table split Solidarnosc in many components that I have no idea as to
> their nuance and number today as they are reflected in different political
> parties.

Did you hear the old Roman proverb "devide et impera" (divide and rule). It is again a product of the Round Table AD 1989. Before that event the Poles were united in their hostility against communists. After they were sold in Magdalenka - they do not believe anybody any more. They are for long to go divided, to enable rules of post communists and their new friends.

> The Ann Arbor Conference singled out Lech Walesa (who was invited along with
> many others, e.g. Z. Brzezinski) as the leading figure in addition to
> Jaruzelski, who failed to appear.  (Kiszczak also failed to appear).

True. And for this reason Walesa lost his value as a politician. He partly knows it, and he knows that his presence at the Ann Arbor conference could be his proverbial last coffin nail in politics. So he didn't go there. Jaruzelski, Kiszczak, Rakowski already are on the history garbage dump, their cosmetics and false wings long ago lost.

> The Univ of Michigan tried to preserve the record of the Polish Roundtable
> and to place it in historical context.  Rational, intelligent individuals can
> hardly quarrel with this purpose.  While it is so easy to impute nefarious
> motives to your adversary, it would appear that the Catholic Church is
> advocating love, forgiveness and reconciliation.

I believe that University of Michigan has for the same reason records of Hitler, Stalin, the Holocaust, Pol Pot and many others. But to have record and to celebrate all their achievements are two different things. As for the term "nefarious" - it is hard to justify use of it without basic knowledge of the facts, isn't it? The Catholic Church attitude can convince people to forgive Hitler's or Stalin's sins - but definitely not enforce the reconciliation with them or love of them. Have you seen anywhere in catholic countries the memorials of the Hitler, Don? Hope not - so let abandon the slogans, even the most religious.

> While I maintain that there appear to be few Christians in Poland, Bishop
> Dembowski rationalized it differently.  He stated that they "were not
> Christian enough."  With a Papal Blessing and two R.C. bishops, I don't know
> how the Conference could be more biased toward the Prawica.

When that Papal Blessing of the Conference took place, and which conference - that in 1989 in Magdalenka or that in 1999 in Michigan? Could you quote the full words of that blessing?

> In 1989, could anyone disagree that the first and only goal was to escape
> Communist control?  Did not the Polish Round Table take that critical,
> irreversible step (crossing the Rubicon) and then beyond?

Unfortunately - the proper course of action in 1989 was to wait a few months longer and celebrate the natural death of the communism - not to go into association with the criminals and bankrupts. Could you imagine similar solution in April/May 1945 Germany and "Magdalenka" instead of Nuremberg Trial? I can easy imagine smiling Goebbels or Hitler playing the initiators of the end of Nazi regime. Believe me - they could give the soul to the devil for such possibility. Pol Pots genarals are just trying this trick, hopefully unsuccessfully.

> Please share your knowledge and views with me.

Done, Don. In very short abbreviation - more as inspiration for your own honest study than to turn you over. But you can't afford not to search for the facts (in Polish too) and use only nicely wrapped and translated lies pushed into your hands at the garage sale in Michigan. Simply for your own self-esteem.

Regards

Miroslaw

--
Miroslaw  M. Krupinski
http://worf.albanyis.com.au/~matuzal/index.htm
http://www.fullcomp.com.au/~miroslaw/KRAJ_UTRACONY.htm

B5------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         Subject:  POLISH ROUNDTABLE
             Date:  Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:50:26 -0400
            From:  George Montgomery <georgeem@home.com>
 Organization:  @Home Network
                To:  miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au, bporter@umich.edu, donb@ioa.com,
                       poniecka@aol.com

Dear Folks:

Please check the attached file

Don Binkowski

To the above letter was attached MSWord file containing following text:

Dear Miroslaw,

Dziekuje bardzo for containing some of your anger.  You must be complimented for engaging in this dialogue that involves much suffering and tribulations.

If you don’t mind, I believe that it will be beneficial to both of us if we try to bring into the discussion one of the organizers of the Polish Round Table, Professor Brian Porter, who has spent five years in Poland, speaks Polish fluently and is researching an aspect of Polish history.  He can address some of your concerns more articulately than me.  I assume but I believe that it is necessary to indicate that we have a rich history of academic freedom coupled with the freedom of press and free speech.  As to the latter, I believe that Voltaire’s famous statement is relevant: ‘I disagree totally with what you have to say but I will defend to my death your right to say it.”  If Poland is ever to become a democracy, it will have to accept much of the American and/or British model.

1) To try to avoid some of your reactions, I purposely limited my discussion to American Communists of the Depression years and used 1945 in my web page, before the start of the Cold War, as the period under consideration.  (Did you note Konstanty’s father?)

MK: I understand that we are discussing here the nature of the communism as the background for the valuation of the dishonest, in my opinion, Magdalenka agreement. Agreement which ruled out responsibilities of the communist for committed crimes and made them the new partners. At the same time this pact made yesterday "oposition" responsible together with the communists for the tragic economic situation  of Poland in 1989 and years to follow.

2) I think that it is probably relevant that you indicate when you left Poland and briefly under what circumstances.  However, you are free to disregard this if you do not want to indicate some of your past.

MK: Thank you - I feel fully free to determine my  way of discussion. As for my history - you can find full information, in Polish and in English  under URL: http://worf.albanyis.com.au/~matuzal/index.htm

3) It appears, and I want to emphasize that it appears that it is difficult, if not impossible, to discuss the Polish Round Table without discussing the misery that Jaruzelski and all of the Communists since 1944 brought to Poland.  However, I would submit that such a discussion is not only possible but also imperative.  As an attorney, I cannot subscribe to “crimes” committed by Jaruzelski unless they would conform to the United Nations crimes against humanity, etc. first devised at Nuremberg.  As an American, I do not want to get involved with any discussion regarding the prosecution of Jaruzelski because it is outside my concerns and I feel that I should not intrude upon the internal affairs of Poland.  I can send you an article by Timothy Ash as to how other countries have been confronting the problem of lustration but that should be a separate area of discussion.  Since I was not a Polish citizen, I have to right to label Jaruzelski a “traitor,” and I cannot help wondering how Pope John Paul II would label him since he negotiated with him.  I don’t know what Jaruzelski did in 1981 had any relevance in 1989 but to indicate that he took a distinctly different course of action.  To my knowledge, no one went to the opposite extreme and labeled him a “savior” at the Ann Arbor Conference.

MK: If you ability to discuss the nature of the crimes of the communists are limited due to your American attorney or judge status - this all discussion is disabled. However maybe as a person who make opinions about Polish realities - you will be pleased to know, that Polish Supreme Court in it's valid verdicts decided that even in the lights of the communist PRL laws - the introduction of the martial law before 18th December 1981 was an unlawful crime. That,  doing so, Jaruzelski & Co committed a forgery of the Government Gazette "Monitor Polski" falsely dated 13.12.1981 and printed later on December 18th.  Between that both dates, as result of Jaruzelski and Kiszczak orders, the peoples  were murdered and thousands of them arrested and imprisoned. So it qualifies them, in my opinion, as murderers. The reference numbers  of those verdicts are:
WRN. 126/91, WRN 105/91.

So please - do not  use the peaceful mission of the Pope as the alibi for Jaruzelski, because the intention of the Pope was to diplomatically disable Jaruzelski's murderous abilities, not to canonize him.

We can't avoid in this discussion to speak about the crimes and treason of Jaruzelski, because he was the person to whom the presidency of the new Poland has been sold in Magdalenka, with disrespect to the Polish voters, who should have the right to decide about it. That democratic right was taken from them at the Round Table in Magdalenka in 1989. They remember it at every following election. And it is too a part of the event we are trying to celebrate today, 10 years later.

4) It may be as difficult for you as it appears to be for me to comment that you are responding as if it were 1990, not 1999, ten years after the fact. Emotionally, you appear to be caught up with a number of events that did not necessarily have to happen as a result of the Polish Round Table, and therefore they are not germane to the discussion.  While Prof. Porter may have a different view, I maintain that the most relevant question is to what extent the Polish Round Table contributed to the demise of Communism not only in Poland but also in Europe.  The Hungarian representative at the Conference stated that they immediately went to Poland to learn how they negotiated.  He felt that the Round Table brought an end to Communism.

MK: Don, you are doing general comments, ignoring at the same time my previous arguments and explanations. I already expressed my opinion about the reasons why the Polish people became politically passive (inactive) and how communists not only survived they own suicidal death but grabbed wealth and power. I repeat - the only achievement of the Polish Round Table was the rescue of the deadly sick corpse of communism and creation, for  they new associates, the future carrier path.

As for Hungarian "followers" - The Hungarians, after October 1956, were the most frightened nation in Europe, kept in the fist of Kadar - the Russian puppet, who replaced murdered Imhre Nodge. When I was a guest of the CGL conference in Rome in November 1981 - I was trying to exchange a few words with the Hungarian delegate. He was in a panic, escaping around the building, to avoid the contact with "infectious Solidarity". The Hungarians were first to congratulate Jaruzelski a victory over its own nation (early 1982), and at the same time Kadar visited him to pass some advice as to keep nation intimidated.

5. While I understand your view point, I can only argue that a Christian is not a Christian for one hour a week.  Saint Maximillian Kolbe did not have to become a martyr.  The test of Christianity, i.e. to love your enemies can only be a real test when you have a viable enemy.  Moreover, I am rather shocked to hear of post-war Communists in Poland.  Yet, the test remains.  Whether one consciously subscribes to reconciliation or not, some kind of reconciliation will ultimately occur.  While each person must decide for themselves because of the element of free will, I thought that Christianity established a pattern for human conduct and behavior, not simply “slogans.”  No one ever stated that following in the footsteps of Christ would ever be easy.  Perhaps, we continue to have genocide is that few are able to follow Him.

MK: So why this stupid World, at the enormous expanses, maintains the prisons, courts, tribunals, armies and police? Why we have UN and peace keeping forces? Why we were bombing Germany and Japan? We can make a huge savings and make a World blooming all year around by replacing it all by reconciliation...

Don't you think that the reconciliation is for arguing, separated, offended and mutually misunderstood - not for the murderers and their victims? Don't you think that when a cop or a judge, despite the proven crimes lets the criminal go free - it is probably a corruption and not a reconciliation? If you don't think so - we are incompatible and we are wasting our time discussing here.

6. Regarding my question of Polish publications about the Round Table, I cannot quantify your answer that “some publications” resulted.  Did not Michnik and other members of Solidarity defend their actions and write about their responses?  Perhaps, a rational discussion has been impossible in Poland and therefore the matter festers unresolved.

MK: Michnik was not a member of Solidarity. He was a former communist, growing his own ideas (KPN), with some friendly understanding from the communists. He was as well an communist's associate - participant of the Round Table affair and, against his previous ideas, the "new" friend of Urban, Jaruzelski, Kiszczak. With a great profit for himself.

7. As best as I can determine at this point, the nub of the critical issue is whether Communism was going to collapse as you claim or whether Jaruzelski and the KP had sufficient power to remain without making any concessions.  Since I did not attend all of the sessions, Prof. Porter can possibly indicate whether the Solidarity members were in agreement that Jaruzelski had the upper hand at the time.  As I first indicated to you, I am a neophyte and I cannot express an opinion because I have not studied the issue.  Accordingly, I must defer to others.

MK: I was observing very closely what is going in the World and Poland after September 1983 - when I was released from the prison. Results of that observations I had already presented as my opinion in previous letter to you, where it can be find. It is not worth to repeat around and around our opinions. You have the right to have your own one, or as you are admitting to have none.

8. It may be unfortunate that the University of Michigan could not have located either you or others with your views to express them before the Conference.  We know that there were others in Solidarity who disagreed with Walesa but that do not necessarily detract from Walesa’s actions.  Either Walesa acted as a “good Pole loyal to Polska” or he did not.  It would appear that a majority of Poles felt that he did.  Am I justified in asking why you and others have not published books to disseminate your views?

MK: I had sent my opinions to the organizers by internet - in Polish, together with the URL addresses of the "Kraj Utracony" where is a plenty of such considerations,  of my presented on internet books "Zaulki Zbrodni" and "Zaulki Prawa". The Polish language was, as I read in University info, the main language of the conference. So why it all was ignored?

I know another person, Canadian Jack Badura, who was desperately trying to submit his papers for the conference. It was denied.

Do  you not think that there were plenty of filters there? Filters which were admitting the supporters as you and preventing "less supportive enthusiasts", as me or J. Badura, to be admitted in?

9. The Secretariat of State, Vatican, March 5, 1999 sent the following to the President of U-M: “His Holiness Pope John Paul II was pleased to receive your letter informing him that on April 7-10, 1999 the University of Michigan will sponsor an academic conference on the Tenth Anniversary of the Polish ‘Round Table Talks’ of 1989.  He wishes me to convey his cordial greetings and good wishes to all taking part.  His Holiness hopes that his disciplined reflection on the spiritual, cultural and political aspects of Poland’s peaceful transition to democracy will highlight their ultimate foundation in a moral imperative arising from the vision of man’s innate dignity of truth (cf. Encyclical Letter “Centesimus Annus,” 23-24).  He is confident that the Conference’s work will call needed attention to the superiority of patient dialogue over all forms of violence in the resolution of conflicts and the building of a just and humane social order.  With these sentiments, His Holiness willingly invokes upon the organizers and participants in the academic program Almighty God’s blessings of wisdom, strength and peace.”  S/Secretary of State.

MK: I am not the person for official interpretation of such nice gesture. But let me express my opinion:

It is a standard, polite answer for the received by the Vatican information about the conference. It is obvious that Pope is supporting and propagating any peaceful solutions around the world by thousands. He already blessed Marcos, Fidel Castro, and some more blood thirsty characters. But the friendliness of The Holy Father is not a legal alibi for any of them, and on many occasions the killers and the victims are blessed together. And they will be in future - because it is a function of the Pope, The Holy Representative of The Forgiving God.

So I believe that Jaruzelski and Kiszczak will have friendly treatment in the Hell, but they have to answer to the law on the Earth as well. Such is the World order. And I am sure, that it still left the consideration of the true nature and results of the Round Table Conference open to us and our children. And that we are not obliged to commit the forgery of our history.

10. I believe that the Conference reiterated the Pope’s concern.  The transition resulting from the 1989 Polish Round Table was  PEACEFUL and without bloodshed as in 1956, 1968, 1970, 1976 and 1981.  You certainly are entitled to your opinion that there were other contributing reasons for the 1989 collapse.  The Conference did not exculpate Jaruzelski for any of his actions and I don’t know to what extent he was credited for the ultimate decision to allow free elections.  You don’t have to give the Devil his due but please don’t confuse the observers with any of the participants.  Chrzanowski expressed his disagreements and he refused to negotiate.  I have always taken the position that if the Pope could negotiate with Communists then it was perfectly legitimate for the secular to negotiate with them.  Somehow, do I get the impression that before shooting Jaruzelski that you do not want to allow him to express any dying words?

MK: Of course that each of us is entitled to his own opinion. The only difference between those two opinions is that you see in the 1989 communists converted sinners, throwing they weapon away - and I see them as the powerless corpse, who  lost they sword, claws and fangs, and whose only available weapon was a deception and greedy helpers..

11.   Whether you disagree, will you concede that other Europeans have the legitimate right to express themselves as to whether they relied on the results of the Polish Round Table and whether it was instrumental in assisting them to end the Communist control in their country?  At this point, I return to my earlier statement, the Polish Round Table contributed more to the collapse of Communism than the fall of the Berlin Wall.  And, in this regard, can you completely disregard how the Germans are dealing with their former Communists?  The biggest problem is that the Poles cannot simply indict Jaruzelski without indicting about 10% or more of the population who assisted him.  Concentration camps in Poland were not originated by the Nazis but by “sanacja” and doesn’t the country have more than enough for this century?

MK: None of both - the fall of the Berlin Wall nor Polish Round Table was a contribution to the collapse of communism. They were both results of that collapse. The contributions were: the continuous fight of the millions of the oppressed, the millions of murdered and remembered by the living, the greed, stupidity and arrogance of the communists and their rulers, and limited loot they had stolen at many occasions - because that limited loot was the limit of their life. Except of course of those of them who found an asylum and new victims.

12.   As a practical and real matter, it will not salve the misery of Poles to know that their experiences under Communism were considerably less arduous than their neighbors and even their Russian brethren.  However, most would agree that the Communists have lost power and influence.  As bad as the conditions may have been in 1989, and there cannot be any justifications or rationalizations for them, the Poles will have to continue to look to Heaven for redress knowing that they enjoyed more economic benefits than their ancestors either in 1913 or probably in 1938.  Again, I am not trying to rationalize the Communist domination but to try to put it in some kind of historical perspective.

MK: I agree that the communism has lost its power and influence. But not the communists - and the Poland is a good (but not alone) example of it. As for the comparison with the 1913  - I will not argue. I could argue about 1938 - but it is out of the subject. And maybe it is worth to remember how could look Polish economy now, if we had not suffer the half of the century of communism. :-).


     Subject:  The Polish Round Table
         Date:  Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:34:40 EDT
        From:  RSelimaj@aol.com
            To:  miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au
           CC: PONIECKA@aol.com, donb@ioa.com

Dear Miroslaw,

Perhaps, this is a good example why few people know of the Polish Round Table.  After being denied a return visa to Poland for several years, Andrew Nagorski (whom I believe is living in Polska) wrote "The Birth of Freedom" (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1993), which you probably can get on Inter Library Loan.

You cannot find a separate listing for "Polish Round Table" in the Index, which complicates the job of a researcher.

"Walesa took the offensive once again, overriding his intellectual advisers and emanding that Solidarity form the first noncommunist government in Eastern Europe, assuming responsibility for a country that was near economic collapse ... With his critics shouting that he was walking into a trap, Walesa achieved the breakthrough that triggered all of the subsequent events of that momentous year, p. 53."

"But Jaruzelski's government later agreed to sit down with Solidarity at the round table, an unprecedented action at that time.  That mixed record left Jaruzelski's behavior open to a broad range of interpretation, p. 59."

See Jaruzelski's version of events on p. 60.  "The willingness of many Poles eventually to give Jaruzelski and his colleagues the benefit of the doubt on martial law does not necessarily translate into an acceptance of their revisionist version of subsequent events.  The evidence suggests that Jaruzelski's later rule was not so benign or forward looking as he would have everyone believe, p. 61."

Rakowski was quoted as saying, "...the government of which I was a part were not mentally prepared to recognize a second equal or even stronger force
(1989), p. 63"

"Faced with a collapsing economy, mounting social discontent that threatened to explode, and no possibility of Soviet support for a new crackdown, the communists had negotiated th round-table accords, hoping to cling to power by giving a portion of it away. ... The round table constituted the party's last hope of controlling their landing, pp. 63-64."

"Though acknowledging their efforts to cling to power, Kiszczak and his colleagues offer what they call their moderation as evidence of their goodwill, p. 64."  See Poland's suffering under Jaruzelski, p. 65. Nagorski documents later abuses by the KP after their fall.

The collapse of Communism in Poland resulted from the joint efforts of Jaruzelski and Solidarnity represented by Walesa.  Whatever the conditions and whatever their respective motives, the Communists held power and were not forced into elections, at the time (eventually maybe they might have been). Understandably and justifiably, Jaruzelski can be criticized for all of his past actions.  He does not even have to be given "credit" for the negotiations which folllowed the round table but it is difficult to give any credit to Walesa without giving the same degree of credit to Jaruzelski.

Perhaps, this is the numb of the problem in analyzing the results of the Round Table.  Perhaps, they are being too personalized.

Again, let's return to the process called the Polish Round Table.  No government in either Central or Eastern Europe had been able to peacefully shed its Communist yoke before its conclusion.  Whether by accident, by fortuity or by luck, the negotiations brought elections, which brought down communism and brought freedom to Poland.

I am willing to stop at this point.

I don't need "heroes" and "traitors."  For me, it is not necessary to personalize the activists and give particular credit to any one or several individuals.

Would this help to conclude the discussion about one facet of the Polish Round Table?

Others can argue over the cause and the motives of the various participants but it's not necessary to credit Poland for leading the way to the collapse of Communism.

Don Binkowski
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Don. I  appreciate this last material and I'm publishing it for the readers for further consideration, without my own comments. I think it is as good conclusion for this discussion as could be many another - because it is a wide subject. I hope that we both have helped some people, left till now in the dark because of the lack of information or problems with the Polish language, to understand more the Polish history and today's reality.

Thank you for the discussion.

Miroslaw M. Krupinski

Note: Some later received letters of Don Binkowski  (including  "second conclusion) are published in "Feedback" part.

PART A
Quoting the  "Time" -     June 16, 1989
Quoting the  "Time" -  August 14, 1989
How We Lost Poland - written in 1996 by Radek Sikorski
 

Miroslaw M. Krupinski / 26.04.1999