The Search for William Henry Tucker

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OK - so my research didn't turn up any information about William Henry Tucker. What it did turn up was a family tree dating back to 1716 in Hanover, Germany and the family of William Henry Tucker's wife, Eliza Samler.

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27/2/04 11:59 PM

Dear Mr Branson

I am researching my family tree and one of my great-great grandfathers was a William Henry Tucker.

I Googled his name and was directed to the former web page of SMSN which is no longer available.

Google's teaser said, "Born England 2-11-1823. Migrated to Australia from St Germain, Cornwall on the ship "Phoebe" (Captain Dale ...)". That was all it said. Do you have any further information on William Henry Tucker as I had calculated his birth year to be about 1822 so he could very probably be the man I'm looking for. My G-G Grandfather lived for a time in Goolwa in South Australia and was said to be something to do with sailing, so river boats seem a likely occupation for him.

I have traced the "Phoebe" to Adelaide on 28th April 1846 but the only other information is that she carried 193 migrants.

Thanking you in advance and hoping that you will be able to help me as this is the first trace I have been able to find of him other than his wedding in London.

Elizabeth Stafford

 

 

G’day Elizabeth,
We’ve just changed servers but try http://www.smsn.vic.edu.au/riverboats/
Frank Tucker is a local teacher around here who maintains these pages.
Kind Regards
Darrel

 

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28th February 2004
To: Kathy Creer

Dear Kathy

For about a year I have been trying to find information about my great-great grandfather, William Henry Tucker.

He was married in London to Eliza Samler and from his age at his marriage I calculated that he was born in about 1822.

Last night I googled him and came across an internet site which, is no longer available, about river boats on the Murray River. All the information that I could glean from the preview was "Born England 2-11-1823. Migrated to Australia from St German's, Cornwall on the ship "Phoebe" (Capt Dale ...)" I assumed that I had found the right man as my William Henry Tucker was something to do with sailing and lived for a time in Goolwa in South Australia. I have contacted the owner of the deleted site who has given me an address to follow up, which I will do.

However I came across an internet site about another William Henry Tucker who was born on 2-11-1823 (same date) who had arrived on the Phoebe and was a blacksmith who had settled in Mt Barker, South Australia.

To confuse me even further, both William Henry Tuckers moved to North Adelaide and one died, aged 77 in 1899 and the other died aged 86 in 1909 so they were both about the same age. I now do not know which one is which.

I suspect that the two William Henry Tuckers have somehow been confused . The Mt Barker one married Emma Pitt and my great-great grandfather married Eliza Samler.

One of them is buried in the West Terrace Cemetery, Lot 17 East, Path 34. My W H Tucker's wife, Eliza, died on 20th March 1909. Does the gentleman in Lot 17 have a wife with him? If he does then I can eliminate a small amount of my confusion about the two men. I think that my William Henry died in 1899 but can not enter that date into my records until I am sure that he is the correct one. I have checked the death records and no next of kin was registered for either man.

As you research both the West Terrace Cemetery and River Murray Shipping I am hoping that you can give me some definite information about my William Henry Tucker.

Looking forward to hearing from you -

Elizabeth Stafford

 

 

From: Kathy Creer
To: Liz Stafford
Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 12:12 PM
Subject: William Henry TUCKER

Hi Liz

There is certainly a lot of information about and much of it is not verified.

The BIO Index of South Australians has this info. While it is not verified either it looks like the Murray River site may be flawed.

TUCKER,Wm Henry b 10.1.1822 ENG di 24.7.1899 Rosewater, SA. arrived 1848 "Hougly"; occup: Storekeeper and farmer; residence: Walkerville, Goolwa, Rosewater; married 10.10.1842 St. Saviours, LND, to Eliza nee SAMLER (father Richard) b. 12.1.1823 d. 20.3.1909 at Semaphore, SA;

Children:

Eliza PEARCE,VENNING 1849-1935

Ellen Jane BROWN 1849-

Wallace 1854-

Charles 1857-1928

Elizabeth MARQUIS, MARTIN 1857-

Maggie 1860-

Frederick 1865-

Mary VENNING

Emma FORWOOD

There is also another son, William Henry Jr who apparently arrived on board ship with his parents.

There is also this entry

TUCKER, William Henry arrived c 1847: occup: blacksmith; residence: Mt Barker, Nairne; m: unknown; Ch; Danl c. 1854

From having a look at the records that are here I would tend towards the idea that the above entries are -as far as it goes - correct. The man who arrived on The PHOEBE is a completely different gentleman.

I have also been though all of the books I have regarding the River Murray boat trade and William is not listed in any of them which supports the idea that he was a storekeeper and the extent of his connection with the Riverboat trade was simply buying and shipping from other ports.

The West Terrace Cemetery microfiche does not give grave locations unfortunately. It simply gives personal details in chronological order under Surname ie all the Tuckers are listed in the order in which they were buried without location details or relatives names.

However, neither Wm Hry who died in 1899 or Eliza are buried there. (This I CAN tell from the fiche) Given that they both died in the Port Adelaide district I would be looking in Hindmarsh or Cheltenham Cemeteries.

William Henry d. 1909 and Emma d. 1908 ARE both buried in WTC. Both were living in Adelaide at the time of their deaths.

From this I would suggest that is proof enough that the entry on the lapsed website you found is not correct.

If you wish I can have a look at the Hindmarsh and or Cheltenham Cemeteries and settle is once and for all but the evidence is pretty convincing from where I stand.

Please note the different email address from which this repy has come and change your address book accordingly. I am closing down the address you originally wrote to.

Cheers
Kathy Creer

 

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(1-3-04) Posted at: http://genforum.genealogy.com/australia/

One of my great great grandfathers is supposed to have arrived in Adelaide on 1848 on the ship "Hougly".
I have searched my "convictions" CD and am unable to locate any ship with a name even remotely like that.
Has anybody got a record of such a ship?

Thank you -

minnie

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Hi Araminta

The Hooghly arrived Adelaide 5/12/1848.

This site is good for SA shipping but have very few passenger lists.

http://www.perthdps.com/shipping/index.html

I don't have a passenger lists but if you contact the Maratime Museum in Port Adelaide they may have a listing. If you email or phone they will do lookups for free on their alphabetical database by surname.

Debbie

 

 

From: Tucker, Frank V
To: Liz Stafford
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:44 AM

Dear Liz, I received a copy of your email from Darrel Branson today so am making contact re William Henry Tucker. I may have some additional information but suspect that your William Henry and mine are different characters. Await your reply

Frank Tucker

 

 

Hi Frank

I've been researching both families since I wrote to Darrel and they are definitely different people. I actually used my BMD CDs to do a family tree for your Tuckers and will send it to you - not sure if you are interested or not, but heck ...! (It is guaranteed virus free.)

I stopped verifying the source material - but it is all in the Births Marriages and Deaths Register for South Australia. Where I was not able to verify a source I said so. Let me know if you are unable to open or read the attachment and I'll put it in the body of an email.

However, your pages have set me searching out my own William Henry Tucker who, like yours, had a son called William Henry; hence a lot of the confusion about who was who. I have actually been given a lead to my own WHT so your page has advanced me considerably in my research.

Regards -

Liz

 

 

From: Liz Stafford
To: Bryan Mawer
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:13 AM
Subject: The Samler Family

Hi Bryan

I am trying to trace the family of one of my great great grandmothers Her name was Eliza Samler (B. 12th January 1823). Her father was Richard Samler (no other information is available to me).

Eliza married William Henry Tucker at St Savior's, London, on 10th October 1842 and emigrated to South Australia in about 1848.

I googled Richard Samler and found your site with a page on a Samler family. I do not know if there is any connection between my family and the one featured on your page but I would welcome any information if there is a link.

Regards -

Liz Stafford

 

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From: Bryan Mawer
To: Liz Stafford
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: The Samler Family

Very interesting !!!

Question ... from where did you get the evidence that her father was Richard, and the year 1824 ??

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Dear Liz

Thank you for your enquiry ... Google is excellent, and has certainly pointed you in the right direction. Harman Samler 1719-1792 of Hanover, Germany, was an important sugar refiner in London ... and, like my own family (Almeroth), probably began all the Samler lines in the UK.

I have a 63 page book of Samler genealogy from a Samler researcher from which I can extract info regarding Eliza, however it does not quite tally with your info ... and I don't wish get between two researchers arguing genealogy :-) .

She appears to be fourth generation, and it's only that initial info that is a problem (and I don't wish to take sides !!), for the marriage and emigration [ 6 Dec 1848 ship "Hoogley" + 2 children] are OK.

Happy to help, and put you in touch with Paul, so look forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes.

Bryan.

Bryan Mawer, Wellingborough, UK
Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers - www.mawer.clara.net

 

 

(6-3-04)

Hi Bryan

The information came from a book - the Biographical Index of South Australians. I'm pasting in the information I received from another researcher who sent it to me. I agree with her (and you) that the information is flawed as the list of children born to William Henry Tucker and Eliza Samler is not correct. And I am having problems tracking down the ship on which they arrived - The Hooghly arrived in Port Adelaide on 25th July 1848 and the Tuckers were not mentioned on the passenger list. I can not find any mention of it returning in December that year although I have sent a request for information to the SA Maritime Museum. I like to check my sources before I add information!

Extract from an email from Kathy Greer:

>>>There is certainly a lot of information about and much of it is not verified.

The BIO Index of South Australians has this info.

TUCKER,Wm Henry b 10.1.1822 ENG di 24.7.1899 Rosewater, SA. arrived 1848 "Hougly"; occup: Storekeeper and farmer; residence: Walkerville, Goolwa, Rosewater; married 10.10.1842 St. Saviours, LND, to Eliza nee SAMLER (father Richard) b. 12.1.1823 d. 20.3.1909 at Semaphore, SA;<<<

The marriage is listed on a LDS genealogy site but with no information as to how it got there. But yeah!! I did not know about William Henry Jnr. until a few days ago (from Kathy Greer)and only surmised a second child, Elizabeth, as my oral history suggested that there was an Elizabeth and an Eliza born to the couple, and William and Elizabeth are not listed in the SA births. They eventually had 11 children and, unfortunately I have never known any of my Tucker cousins.

I would welcome any information on the Samler family and am very happy to exchange any information I have regarding the family in South Australia.

Regards -

Liz Stafford

 

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Dear Liz

Thank you. I have OCRd the direct line info from the book ... below. It doesn't read too well out of context, but it will give you an idea of what I have here. I can only work back to Harman, there's nothing forward of the 2 children. ( I cannot vouch for its accuracy.)

I shall forward your message to Paul in a hope that he will then contact you and perhaps be able to send full details as attachments. If you don't hear from him within a couple of weeks come back to me and I'll photocopy the relevant pages from the book for you and send by post.

Hope of use ... let me know if any questions.

Best wishes.

Bryan.

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21. Eliza Mary Samler #2369 (8.John3, 2.John2, 1.Harman1) b. 12 Jan 1824, London.U.K., 14 Jun 1826, St.Olave.Southwark.London.U.K., ref: Samler:2369/0, occupation Housewife, m. 10 Oct 1842, in St.Saviour's Church, Southwark,London., William Henry Tucker #4865, b. 10 Jan 1822, London U K, ref: Tucker:4865/O, d. 24 Jan 1899, South Australia, buried: 1899. Eliza died 20 Mar 1909, Adelaide,South Australia., buried: March 1909, Adelaide,South Australia. PRO,records,Marriages, 1/4 Dec. 1842 Southwark St.Saviour, Vol.No.4.Page No.481. picture on file. William: The family arrived in South Australia on the ship "Hoogley" on 6th December 1848 with two children William and Elizabeth.

Children:
i William Henry Tucker #4868 b. 23 Jul 1843, St.Johns,London, ref: Tucker:4868/P. ii Elizabeth Tucker #4866 b. 31 Aug 1845, St.Georges,East,London.U.K,refs Tucker:4866/P, occupation Housewife, m. 26 Jun 1865, in St.Judes Church Pt. Elliott, South Aus., Robert Dixon Marquis #4867, ref: Marquis:4867/P. Elizabeth died 3 Feb 1941, South Australia., buried: February 1941

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8. John Samler #2363 (2.John2, 1.Harman') b. 1782, London.U.K., ref: Sam:2363/N, occupation Leather Dealer, m. (1) 27 Jun 1813, in St.Olave.Southwark London.U.K., Margaret Jackson #2365, ref Jack:2365IN, occupation Housewife, m. (2) Mary #2470, ref: Sam:24701N, occupation Housewife. Directories of 1811 and 1817.John Samler Morocco mfr.27,Russell St.Bermondsey London.John's first wife may have been the older sister to Margaret Jackson his second wife.He was presence at the wedding of Richard Nicholas Samler

[6 children]
21. iv Eliza Mary #2369 b. 12 Jan 1824.

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2. John Harman Samler #1117 (LHarmani) b. 22 Sep 1752, London.U.K., 15 Oct 1752, St.Anne Blackfriars.London.U.K., ref: Sam: 1117/L, m. unknown #2362, ref Sam:2362/L, occupation Housewife. John died 20 Dec 1799, London U.K.[aged 47years old]., buried: 1799. St.Anne Blackfriars Parish Register(Baptism) Guildhall Library MS4508/2.

[5 children]
8. i John #2363 b. 1782

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1. Harman Samler # 1115 b. 1719, Hanover,Germany, ref Sam: 11151L, occupation Sugar Baker., m. unknown, in London,U.K., Anne Starr #1116, b. 5 Dec 1725, London.U.K., St.Ann Blackfriars London.U.K., (daughter of Richard Starr #2343 and Mary Biggs #2344) ref: Starr:11161L, occupation Housewife, d. 29 Aug 1804, Clapham Common,London.U.K., buried: September 1804, St. Andrew in the Wardrobe,Blackfriars. Harman died 4 Aug 1792, London.U.K., buried: August 1792, St.Andrew by the Wardrobe,Blackfriars.

[6 children]
2. i John Harman #1117 b.22 Sep 1752.

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From: Bryan Mawer
To: Liz Stafford
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: The Samler Family

Dear Liz

I've written to Paul, we'll see if either of us get a reply.

The site you found the Samler page on is a large site that I compile concentrating on the Sugar Trade, mainly UK, and those who worked in it. (Index page ... www.mawer.clara.net) It is used by researchers worldwide.

So, my interest in the Samler family is only those first two or three generations that ran their own Sugarhouses in London, but I have Paul's info as his family, again with sugar interests, is related to the Samler family by a marriage in 1860.

Best wishes.

Bryan.

Bryan Mawer, Wellingborough, UK
Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers - www.mawer.clara.net

 

 

Dear Bryan

Thank you for all your help - it has opened up a whole new branch of my family. The hardest part of researching genealogy in Australia is finding out how one's forebears reached here in the first place; the shipping lists are inadequate and until very recently all the census records were routinely destroyed.

Often there is no way of finding out which part of England the family emigrated from so to find such a definite connection from England to Australia is very valuable indeed.

Whether I hear from Paul or not you have made a great contribution to a record which will be lost if it is not recorded, something which I am trying to do for the sake of my children and grandchildren who may one day develop an interest in their roots.

My very best regards -

Liz

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